Questions from Soulpancake Baha'i discussion forum

By brainwashing the ordinary Western Baha'i into blind obedience, taqlid, betraying Abdul-Baha's promise of "independent investigation of truth," Shoghi Effendi and the Haifan Baha’is concocted a deceitfully oppressive Shiite "world order" upon the pernicious foundation of a fraudulent will and testament.

Slandering the smaller Bahai denominations hasn't made them go away after 80 years for very good reasons. The Haifans don't have the truth. Deceived and brainwashed believers, of any denomination, Eric Hoffer's "true believers," don't change a thing.

Evading Ruth White’s charge confirmed it. Shoghi Effendi's "evidence" for the authenticity of the purported will and testament was and is the weakest link in the chain of lies, distortions, and half-truths advanced by him and subsequently deceived and brainwashed Baha'is. Ruth White, others, and I have always maintained that it was quite possibly that initially the forgery was the work of his family. Either way, the spurious document is nothing like the teachings of Abdul-Baha, whether in public or private.

NOTE WELL, What's purported to be Abdul-Baha's will and testament has never been probated or authenticated independently of those who were and are its beneficiaries.

An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html

Again, most of the Haifan Baha'is have been completely deceived and brainwashed into believing an entirely false version of the early Bahai events during Abdul-Baha's lifetime, so that many Baha'is are well meaning but in the dark, without knowing it. The entire "covenant breaking" mentality that has been inculcated into them prevents them from seeking the truth of their own tradition. Instead, unsuspectingly, they accept the half-truths and distortions concocted by Shoghi Effendi and others who benefited monetarily and otherwise from the forged document.

An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html

What do people on Soulpancake think of the recent US 7th District Court ruling for the third time against Wilmette Baha'is?
52 responses. They were seeking to destroy several other Bahai denominations... Lawyer Jeffery Goldberg: Decision is final! ...The deadline for the NSA to file a petition ...with the US Supreme Court was March 29th, [2011] the NSA did not file anything with the Supreme Court. Therefore the decision of the Court of Appeals is final..

I would say much coercion applies, more than you and most American and Western Bahais realize...
Coercion with a happy face is difficult to see through. As Shakespeare so wisely phrased it, "One may smile and smile and be a villain." Modern culture and the Haifan Baha'i interpretation has lost that too often that realization, disarming the young especially...

Well, you're right about that. It's not incumbent on anyone else in the USA to listen to or respect fundamentalist Christians. I concede I was expressing my own opinion. I enjoy listening to and learning from views not my own, including yours, I might add, and thank you for sharing your views and participating.

"when someone shows up at my door, claiming I /legally/ have to follow a particualar religion by whatever name or else, then there is a problem. until that time, its a non-issue for me."

Here's what history shows: If you wait that long, it's too late...

Think of Christianity, since you mention it. Is there only ONE denomination? No. Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, etc.... Haifan Baha'is claim to be "the truth," and then have sued in the New York Supreme Court in 1941, other US courts in 1966, and the 7th US Federal Court of Northern Illinois in 2006 to 2010, to DEPRIVE people of their Constitutional rights, receiving a corrupt judgment in 1966 that actually led to one Baha'i denomination's demise. That's a radically different and more serious scenario that you suggest. Far from not happening, it did happen.

Further, the suppression of free speech and conscience has taken place wherever on the Internet the Haifan Baha'is, following the Shiite Islamic doctrines re-introduced into it by Shoghi Effendi, that it has had effectively control of the forum in its hands. There's a decades-long database of these incidents available, again, at

The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship

Have you read Orthodox Baha'i Jeffery Goldberg's Personal Reflections on the Wilmette-Haifan Baha'i lawsuits in US Federal Courts from 2006 to 2011?
https://www.truebahai.com/2011/04/personal-reflections.html

"it is fair to say they are nice people ( at least to me)."

They want to convert you, but while doing so, they're not about to tell you the actual history of what happened in the United States of America, mostly, during the crucial decades of Bahai development, because they themselves don't know it.... They're been lied to and brainwashed into a Shiite Iranian schism, while thinking they have the "truth."

As analogy, many Catholics burning Englishmen at the stake in the 1500s were otherwise "nice" people; so were Marxists sending millions to their death in the Soviet gulag, Cambodia aparatchiks... etc. Hence, freedom of speech and conscience are important for the cause of truth and the stability of a civilization worthy of the name. The internal affairs of all such organizations are therefore important for the whole society.

"Fundamentalist Christians" are our fellow citizens and have the right to their conscience as well. If we are not to stigmatize and dismiss, depriving them of their rights, it is incumbent upon us also to respect them, listen to them, and try to understand them too, as with all opinions.

I did ask a big question. The Orthodox Baha'i page I referred you to demonstrates just how important and "big" my question actually is. I invite you again to read it and reflect on what the "nice people" you think well of are *actually* doing to your fellow US citizens behind your back...

I welcome your questions, respect, and have tried my best to help you understand that there are several Bahai denominations. You apparently only know what one of them wants you to know.

Now what you need to do is really understand the first three volumes, up to Abdul-Baha's death in November of 1921.

What the Haifan Baha'is have always concealed from you through slander and distortions of history, can be found in brief at

Abdu'l-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html

An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html

Dr. C. (Charles) Ainsworth Mitchell. Report on the Writing Shown on the Photographs of the Alleged Will of Abdul-Baha. 1930. Certified Copy from the Library of Congress.
https://www.reformbahai.org/CAMitchell_Report.html

Ruth White in the 1920s, along with hundreds of Bahais, realized the will and testament was forgery. Her books are especially important for documenting beyond Star of the West what really happened when Abdul-Baha died:
https://www.reformbahai.org/Ruth_White.html

Ruth White, Bahai Leads Out of the Labyrinth.
Universal Publishing Company, 1944. 259 pages.
https://www.reformbahai.org/WhiteBLOL.pdf

Ruth White. Abdul Baha's Questioned Will and Testament.
Beverly Hills: White, 1946.
https://www.reformbahai.org/WhiteABQWT.pdf

You ask fair questions and so first I'll ask you one and then answer:

Have you read Orthodox Baha'i Jeffery Goldberg's Personal Reflections on the Wilmette-Haifan Baha'i lawsuits in US Federal Courts from 2006 to 2011? The Baha'is you refer to as "so happy, and nice"?
https://www.truebahai.com/2011/04/personal-reflections.html

I urge you to consider who and what the people you think of as "Baha'is" really are and who is provoking whom.

The Reform Bahai message in brief is available at About the Reform Bahai Faith
https://www.reformbahai.org/about.html

"it's called the independent investigation of truth and for those who have decided to try for dialogue with me here, remember, you are violating your own covenant by trying!"

Quintessential hypocrisy... since Haifan Baha'is don't practice "independent investigation of truth," but smug self-righteousness and sanctimony, as noted in this thread by others, and all over the Internet, richly documented at The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship

If you or any other brainwashed Haifan Bahai "don't want dialogue," I suggest you try not insulting other American citizens with your fanaticism and stupidity.

If you decide you want to actually independently investigate the truth, I suggest you read the three volumes of Star of the West available online at Google, from 1910 to 1921. They clearly show that you and other Haifans are following a false document.

Unlike you and your fellow cult members, Reform Bahais follow Abdu'l-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html

I suggest you read if you can de-program yourself long enough to do so...

Trying to practice the virtue of humility and the associated quality of being able to laugh at one's self, I think it's funny. It might be like some Jewish or Polish jokes, it helps if you're one.

I respect the allusion to silence.

I'll help you out, since one comes to mind and you volunteered several for other religions and Bahai, kindly meant, as yours doubtlessly were. Thinking of other comments of yours on Quakerism, & short:

The Inner Light has turned to shit...

Equally applicable to other forms of "liberalism," I would say, some more so than others.

For those who missed the context, posted by flashbanding at
https://www.soulpancake.com/question/59229/what-do-people-on-soulpancake-think-of-the-recent-us-7th-district-court-ruling-for-the-third-time-against-wilmette-bahais.html

Some Religious Truths

TAOISM: Shit happens
ZEN BUDDHISM: What is the sound of shit happening?
PROTESTANTISM: Let shit happen to someone else
ATHEISTS: Shit happens for no apparent reason
HARE KRISHNA: Shit happens/ Shit happens/ Happens, happens/ Shit happens
CONFUCIANISM: Confucius says: "Shit happens"
HINDUISM: This shit happened before
CATHOLICISM: If shit happens you deserve it
AGNOSTICS: Facts happen
EVANGELISTS: Send me £8 million or shit will happen to you
BUDDHISM: If shit happens, it isn't really shit
ISLAM: If shit happens it is the will of Allah
JUDAISM: Why does shit always happen to us?
CHRISTIAN SCIENTISTS: Only good shit happens
JEHOVA'S WITTNESSES: Let us in and we will tell you why shit happens
and BAHAI'S: All the shit happeneth in unpoetic scriptural harmony

"I'm glad you recognize this about Islam. Do you also recognize that EVERY version of the Baha'i faith views the Qu'ran (Islam's book) as having been inspired by God? Therefore, aren't Baha'is who follow the "thinking of Islam" just following their religion?"

Thanks for commenting. I think you're asking some excellent questions. All of the 9 to 10 Bahai denominations do indeed recognize the Quran as "inspired by God." The crucial point I would make is that Baha'u'llah, as a later prophet or Manifestation after Muhammad, had *removed from the Book* all of the Islamic teachings that lead to misunderstanding and violence, which still obviously lead to our current world problems. Simiarly, Abdul-Baha had affirmed his father's teaching, moving further away from the Islamic heritage of the Bahai Faith, during his travels and talks, as well as writings from about 1910 until his death in 1921.

Unfortunately, Shoghi Effendi and his power-hungry family forged a false will and testament for Abdul-Baha, which gave them control of the material assets of the faith and turned the main body of Bahais who followed them like sheep back to the Iranian Shiite branch of Islam. That criminal act of forgery is what has hamstrung the Bahai Faith, corrupting the pristine interpretation of Abdul-Baha, which was a wide embrace, open, and universal. Many Bahais have seen this experience as analogous to the Donation of Constantine in Christianity, even way back in the 1920s.

Here are the relevant words of Baha'u'llah:

XXXI
It is sanctioned that all the nations of the world consort with each other with joy and fragrance. Consort ye, O people, with the people of all religions with joy and fragrance. We have said—and our saying is truth—Consort with all the people of religions with joy and fragrance. Through this Utterance whatever was the cause of foreignness, discord and disunion has been removed.

LXXII
The deniers and contradictors hold to four words:

First: Destroying men’s lives.
Second: Burning the books.
Third : Shunning other nations.
Fourth: Exterminating other nations.

Now, by the Grace and Authority of the Word of God, these four great barriers have been demolished. These four manifest decrees have been effaced from the Book, and God hath changed brutal manners into spiritual qualities."

(FROM The Universal Principles of the Reform Bahai Faith. Baha'u'llah & Abdul-Baha 148 pages. Ebook Edition 2010 ePub, Kindle The Reform Bahai Press
https://www.reformbahai.org/Reform_Bahai_Press.html

So to return to your question, I would say the Wilmette-Haifan Baha'is, and the 5 denominations that follow the fraudulent will and testament of 1921, most of them without knowing it, are indeed following the teachings of the Quran, as you suggest, and I have l clarified--i.e., the worst teachings, the ones that Baha'u'llah Himself had “effaced,” “removed” from the Book, i.e., the Quran! By analogy from the entire corpus of the Bahai Writings...

The Haifans following that type of fanatical thing out of Islam have wrought all of the abominations of lawsuits, coercion of conscience, censorship, and so forth as documented online. Google "Baha'i censorship" for details.

Hope this helps.

Incidentally, I was willing to laugh at myself and all things Bahai after your "shit" jokes on another thread, but you still haven't answered my request for how you'd describe your fellow Quakers. Does your sense of humor only run in one direction, over the rainbow?

I wrote:
LOLz... You left one out... REFORM BAHAI FAITH: Shit happened in the past; wake up and smell what you're sitting in.. It occurs to me you left out another one... Please share with us your version for your fellow QUAKERS...
https://www.soulpancake.com/question/59229/what-do-people-on-soulpancake-think-of-the-recent-us-7th-district-court-ruling-for-the-third-time-against-wilmette-bahais.html

wrote "@Your_Fellow_Felon
what a sad little person you are"

That type of personal attack and derision is very typically of Wilmette Baha'is who often conceal their hypocrisy from the general American public. The evidence is all over the Internet, much of it archived for those who want to read and decide for themselves on

The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship

My "patronising approach," as you phrase it, was what John Milton called "righteous indignation," if memory serves, against a tyrannical popery that crushed the English people. The Wilmette-Haifan cult has done exactly that for decades, as the Orthodox Baha'i lawyer Jeffery Goldberg makes clear in his Personal Reflections,https://www.truebahai.com/2011/04/personal-reflections.html

Mell exuded the derision and contempt that Haifans regularly use against any dissenting voice, and, indeed, have done so for decades. Anyone wishing to confirm my allegation can so easily by merely skimming the many incidents over the decades that are documented on The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Consciencehttps://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship

Interesting that you're playing good cop, bad cop...

That's uncalled for and below the belt. Attacking people, instead of ideas, is known ad hominem, "against the person."

Instead of exhibiting the manner in which the Wilmette-Haifan Baha'i organization teaches its members to treat people with different opinions, please rise above it, especially if you're American who ought to extend respect and tolerance to other citizens.

Let me add that "Your_Fellow_Felon" is only noticing what others have on Soulpancake, and elsewhere for that matter, about many Baha'is--a tendency to a very legalistic mindset that tends to sanctimony, a trait long thought by many religions to one that leads spiritual sterility. "Your_Fellow_Felon" has as much to his opinion as you do to yours.

Well, you make a lot of good points and in general I fully agree with you. The problem for all of the several Bahai denominations that now exist is that the Wilmette Baha'is think they have the exclusive truth or interpretation to the point that commit actions that run counter to the Constitutional rights of other Bahais who happen to be citizens of the United States of America.

"So, is the NSA trying to make it /law/ that everybody has to believe the same way?"

Yes, is the short answer. That's exactly what the Wilmette nsa was trying to do in the 7th District US Federal Court of Northern Illinois. It sued three different Baha'i denominations that believe they, individually, are the rightful successors to Shoghi Effendi, who died in 1957.

In 1966, the Wilmette Baha'is had actually succeeded in getting a US judge in making it illegal for the Orthodox Baha'i Faith under a man named Mason Remey from practicing in the United States. Fortunately, the recent Court just overturned that judgment, protecting the religious freedom of all the various Bahai denominations. The Orthodox Baha'i lawyers describes it all better than my brief description on his blog, if interested:https://www.truebahai.com/2011/04/personal-reflections.html

I believe he's right, though, in realizing it won't end there. The Wilmette Baha'is have been heavily indoctrinated for decades into a very cult-like mentality that isolates Baha'is from other opinions, whether other Baha'is or friends and family. Historically speaking, part of the problem is that in 1921 the Baha'i Faith at the time was taken over by Shoghi Effendi who turned it back towards the Iranian Shiite thinking of Islam, which is very fanatical and intolerant. Most American Wilmette Baha'i converts don't even know about those developments and are isolated from finding out by many reprehensible control tactics.

So, the problem is a very serious one even for the United States, broadly, as the US Federal Courts realized, I think. What people in the US tend to think of as "Baha'i" has two very different faces and realities, the worst side carefully hidden from the public and converts.

@Your_Fellow_Felon The lawyer for the three Baha'i denominations that was sued by the Wilmette Baha'is, which was trying to destroy them, doesn't use your exact words but seems to basically agree with you...

Jeffery Goldberg, Personal Reflections on the Baha'i lawsuits in US Federal Courts from 2006 to 2011. April 29, 2011
https://www.truebahai.com/2011/04/personal-reflections.html

Why do you think what you do?

Why does Baha'i feel like a cult?

Flippantly, I would say, because it is... more seriously, rather, because the *denomination* that most people think of as the "Baha'i Faith" is based on a fraudulent will and testament that was passed off in 1921 as having been written by Abdul-Baha. The forged document was used by Shoghi Effendi and other power-hungry Baha'is of the time to completely change the entire tenor and direction of the Bahai Movement as clearly taught by Abdul-Baha during his entire lifetime and travels throughout Europe and the United States, even right up to his death in 1921.

After his publicly recorded speeches and addresses, the Star of the West the best record of what Abdul-Baha's actually taught. His Address Upon the Covenant of 1912 was, and still is, for the Reform Bahai Faith, the Authentic Covenant, which was the one universally recognized by the early Bahais until 1921. You can read it for yourself at

Abdu'l-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html

And see An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html

Hope this helps.

As recorded in Abdul-Baha in London, it is up to the individual to define his or her relationship to the Bahai Cause. Abdul-Baha himself had said, "You can be a Bahai-Christian, a Bahai-Freemason, a Bahai-Jew, a Bahai-Muhammadan. The number nine contains eight, and seven, and all the other numbers, and does not deny any of them. Do not distress or deny anyone by saying 'He is not a Bahai!' He will be known by his deeds" (98).

The other Bahai denominations have suppressed this and other public statements by Abdul-Baha to serve their more authoritarian interpretations of his vision of Baha'u'llah's Faith for the modern world. Reform Bahais don't believe they meant to recreate a medieval Catholic Church or other such tyranny.

"Christian-Bahai" worked for Abdul-Baha. Who is qualified to second guess your own conscience?

About the Reform Bahai Faith
https://www.reformbahai.org/about.html

Since Alison mentions the Reform Bahai Faith, let me say that anyone interested in know more about it might find the following pages helpful:

About the Reform Bahai Faith
https://www.reformbahai.org/about.html

Abdu'l-Baha's Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html

An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html

Bahai regards.

"Rainn Wilson is only one of many makers and contributors to this site - as many who are involved have already testified - it was never intended to be any such thing as a Baha'i site.

you can't really even claim an exclusive thread - that's just not the way any of these open membership types of chat board sites work..."

I believe that's an accurate statement about Soulpancake. The exclusivism that Wilmette-Haifan Baha'is often claim here on it, though, seems highly revealing to me. I've noticed other people have remarked on this kind of thing on Soulpancake, for example, Alison at
https://www.soulpancake.com/question/27402/so-sp-crew-is-this-a-bahai-site-or-isnt-it.html

I haven't read Caputo's On Religion, but I'll make a note of his work. Might be something worth checking out. Thanks. On the level of unity, Unity, I would say I agree with you, regarding Sai Baba and other spiritual teachers. It's more on the level, levels, of the claims made by Baha'ullah and Abdul-Baha that distinguishes the Bahai Teachings from someone like Sai Baha, the global scope of teachings appropriate for a spiritual life in modern society, in its plenitude.

I recommend The Universal Principles of the Reform Bahai Faith - Hardcover, Soft, & Kindle Edition - (Dec. 14, 2007) by Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l-Bahahttps://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=universal+principles+of+the+reform+bahai+faith

The Universal Principles of the Reform Bahai Faith collects many of the early writings of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha, published in the West, seeking to restore and preserve their vision of the oneness of God, humanity, and all religions. In addition to all of the 1912 Universal Principles of the Bahai Movement, the book includes Baha'u'llah's Hidden Words, selections known as the Spirit of the Age, an address by Abdu'l-Baha at the Friends' Meeting House in London in 1913, and many Bahai prayers for community and individual worship and meditation. Though beginning in 2004, the Reform Bahai Faith traces its origin to the early Bahais Ruth White, Mirza Ahmad Sohrab, and Julie Chanler, who sought to preserve the Teachings of Abdu'l-Baha after his passing in 1921. They and other early American Bahais understood the Bahai Faith was being turned into an oppressive organization, under what the British Museum document expert Dr. C. Ainsworth Mitchell judged to be a fraudulent will and testament. Baha'u'llah, the Founder of the Bahai Faith, believed in and taught a moderate, universal religion, grounded in a separation of church and state, not a theocracy, and members of the Reform Bahai Faith seek to recover and renew that saving vision for all humanity. The newcomer to the Bahai Teachings will find here a brief but eloquent and inspiring introduction to the Faith of Baha'u'llah, while people already familiar with it will find a refreshing breeze has returned to revivify and uplift the spirit. This book marks the first publication of the Reform Bahai Press, which will publish several more titles during the next few years.

In principle I agree with you, and then think of the many authoritarian organizations, political and otherwise, like the former USSR and China today. Are or were they "civilized human beings"? Imprisoning and murdering millions?

Many millions have had bitter experience with such organizations. To me, the moral then, is what is the thinking and teachings of any organization? I don't believe they should be taken at face value without rigorous thought and examination.

Oh, I want to ask too, how does that kind of fanaticism make it a "Very peaceful religion"?

"It is based on the spiritual unity of all people. Very peaceful religion."

Does that include Bahais of the several other Bahai denominations? The ones that Wilmette-Haifan Baha'is have been suing in the US Federal Courts during the last three or four years? The lawsuits that the Federal Courts have rejected THREE TIMES?

Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals
Public Access to Oral Argument recordings,
Opinions, Unpublished Orders, and other selected case materials
https://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/fdocs/docs.fwx?caseno=08-2306&submit=showdkt&yr=08&num=2306

Furhter details about the lawsuits at

The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

I've had several experiences where people respond that the Baha'i Faith is a cult when I tell them I'm a member of the Reform Bahai Faith, even though Reform Bahais don't believe in the 1921 forged will of Abdul-Baha, following his authentic 1912 Covenant.

So I think it's "a bad thing" that the Wilmette Haifan Bahais conceal and suppress the actual history of Abdul-Baha's speaking in the United States, as well as the publication of the 1912 Covenant in the Star of the West, the early Bahai magazine.

Abdu'l-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html

An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html

Non-Bahais who would like the historical background to the discussion of this thread might find the following website helpful, especially some of the articles marked “Essential Readings”:

The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship

Iwould urge anyone seeking to understand any of the several Bahai denominations to reflect on the experience of the early Bahais Ruth White, Mirza Ahamd Sohrab, Julie Chanler, and the work of the British Museum document expert Dr. Ainsworth Mitchell, who judged in 1930 the purported will and testament of Abdul-Baha forgery.

The relevant links are

About the Reform Bahai Faith
https://www.reformbahai.org/about.html

Abdu'l-Baha's Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html

An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html

Again, none of that is to dwell on the negative; it's to recognize the inescapable importance of an accurate understanding of the events of the past, the buried and suppressed past of the Bahai Movement, which the vast majority of its members are woefully unaware of, kept unaware of.

Only then can one begin to understand the phenomenon of a denomination that has several times sued in court members of other Bahai denominations since the early 1940s. Only then can one begin to recover the actual Interpretation of Abdul-Baha, in and for the modern world.

The problem for Wilmette-Haifan Baha'is really goes back to the Shiite Islamic thinking that Shoghi Effendi reinstituted, despite Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha repudiating it, in my opinion. The US Court of Appeals has rejected it THREE times, yet Haifans continue to pretend they have the soul truth of all of Bahai history, human history, even...

Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha respected the freedom of conscience of the soul that God bestowed on the individual. It's clear which Baha'i denomination seeks to deprive its followers of that, a fact which all the recent lawsuits of the corrupted Haifan administration also proclaims to the entire population of the United States of America, and, indeed, the world. How right those Courts were to utterly reject their attempts to destroy other Bahai denominations! THREE TIMES!!!

Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals
Public Access to Oral Argument recordings,
Opinions, Unpublished Orders, and other selected case materials
https://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/fdocs/docs.fwx?caseno=08-2306&submit=showdkt&yr=08&num=2306

Bahai regards.

The Reform Bahai Faith
https://www.ReformBahai.org

I respect your conscience. I can only say I don't share it. And state candidly what my own views are and why. I have done that extensively... I understand and acknowledge people of good will can think other than I do. As a Bahai since 1976, I doubt I'm unfamiliar with the wide variety of allegations, from various viewpoints, on the figures of the Faith.

Chained? Presupposes an exclusive Truth. I don't believe that's what Abdul-Baha was really about...

I am not one who has advocated "revenge." What would it be? No, only the "truth shall set you free." It's that perspective that the Reform Bahai Faith is about. Skim around our website for a better sense.

The Reform Bahai Faith
https://www.ReformBahai.org

With eyes open? I suppose you're thinking of independent investigation of truth? Definitely. Abdul-Baha never taught that one should stop search for truth once one becomes a Baha'i, quite the opposite, unlike what the Haifans have come to accept under Shoghi Effendi's fascist imposition of "obedience."

My certainty is one of belief, but one based on actual documents. The Haifan will and testament was NEVER probated or authenticated. Abdul-Baha's 1912 Covenant was delivered in public in New York City, and republished in Star of the West at least four times prior to 1921 and in a separate pamphlet edition that all early Bahais knew of and read. Dr. Mitchell was one of the leading document experts of the first half of the 20th Century. His original Report is available through the Library of Congress. A PDF of it is available on the Reform Bahai Faith website under Early Reform Bahais, etc., etc...

Respectfully, with brotherly love.

Well, with human beings involved, history is always a test for the individual and collective soul/souls... It seems the Divine Being wants it that way.

"This persistent schism demeans your beautiful faith."

The irony is that the perpetrators of schism were actually, as irrefutably documented historical fact, Shoghi Effendi and his corrupt, materialistic family. They who have demeaned Abdul-Baha's open, liberal, universal Interpretation of Baha'u'llah's Teachings, bringing them in line with the modern 20th Century and especially the Western world, has actually been the Wilmette, Haifan Baha'is, though deceived and brainwashed into thinking otherwise.

Religious history is rife with such ironies.

Thanks for responding. I would say the future and present cannot be confronted without an understanding of the past, one based on actual events, history. Distorted history, secular or religious, produces sundry felonies and crimes... I am far from the first human being to confront such abysmal realities.

I would like to think I have written extensively, and suggested as much in this thread. The following links quite fully, and in detail, the actual history that took place during Abdul-Baha's last decade, thoroughly documented in the Star of the West, which the Haifans have always tried to sweep under the carpet.

The relevant links are

About the Reform Bahai Faith
https://www.reformbahai.org/about.html

Abdu'l-Baha's Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html

An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html

Beyond all of that, I would urge anyone seeking to understand any of the several Bahai denominations to reflect on the experience of the early Bahais Ruth White, Mirza Ahamd Sohrab, Julie Chanler, and the work of the British Museum document expert Dr. Ainsworth Mitchell, who judged in 1930 the purported will and testament of Abdul-Baha forgery.

Again, none of that is to dwell on the negative; it's to recognize the inescapable importance of an accurate understanding of the events of the past, the buried and suppressed past of the Bahai Movement, which the vast majority of its members are woefully unaware of, kept unaware of.

Only then can one begin to understand the phenomenon of a denomination that has several times sued in court members of other Bahai denominations since the early 1940s. Only then can one begin to recover the actual Interpretation of Abdul-Baha, in and for the modern world.

Thanks for saying so. As you probably understand, many non-Bahais looking in on this thread wouldn't be able to see through some of negative intimations made by some Haifan Bahais here.

Sad, to see fellow Americans doing this kind of thing... sort of like the Puritans chasing Roger Williams and others into the wilderness. Many of them felt they *were* Puritans.

The problem for Haifan Baha'is really goes back to the Shiite Islamic thinking that Shoghi Effendi reinstituted, despite Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha repudiating it, in my opinion. The US Court of Appeals has rejected it THREE times, yet Haifans continue to pretend they have the soul truth of all of Bahai history, human history, even...

Abdul-Baha's authentic 1912 Covenant should not be confused, if you don't mind my making the distinction, with the so-called will and testament of 1921.

Abdu'l-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html

An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html

You seem to imply you're the only one on earth entitled to be "sad" and that somehow puts you in the right or in possession of the truth. I feel sad that fellow American citizens are so deceived and brainwashed by the Haifan machine fraudulently created and imposed by Shoghi Effendi and his corrupt family, in 1921, that still after all these decades, like some followers of other religions and various denominations, they blindly and unquestioningly follow the fanatical distortions that depart from the Interpretation that Abdul-Baha clearly gave the early Bahais of the West, as recorded and documented in the Star of the West, for all truth seekers to read and evaluate for themselves. Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha respected the freedom of conscience of the soul that God bestowed on the individual. It's clear which Baha'i denomination seeks to deprive its followers of that, a fact which all the recent lawsuits of the corrupted Haifan administration also proclaims to the entire population of the United States of America, and, indeed, the world. What a pathetic spectacle that the Haifans have dragged the Name of the Blessed Beauty through the mud of the US Federal Courts! How right those Courts were to utterly reject their attempts to destroy other Bahai denominations! THREE TIMES!!! Bahais of other denominations have as much right as any other US citizen to participate in this forum online and share their conscience and views with other Bahais and non-Bahais. It should be clear to any objective citizen reading the actual history of the practices and behavior of Wilmette and Haifan Baha'is here on Soul Pancake and elsewhere online what their methods have actually been. That's the wonderful thing about freedom of conscience and democracy, which both Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha approved of. As I've mentioned, the Courts have repeatedly upheld such principles, while the Haifans seek to impose a very corrupted interpretation of the Faith upon its unfortunate followers, the vast majority of whom are kept in the Dark... Slandering and maligning people as "covenant breakers" doesn't conceal who the real breakers and betrayers of Adul-Baha's liberal and open Interpretation of His Father's Faith really are. Reform Bahais and other fellow Bahais have as much right to post links elucidating their understanding of the Bahai Teachings as the Wilmette Baha'is, who attempt to characterize the fact as some egregious sin in order to smear and discredit people holding different views. Their tactics are obvious to thoughtful people. Further details on the actual history of the Bahai Faith may be found at The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/ Bahai regards. The Reform Bahai Faith https://www.ReformBahai.org

"If you really believe in IIOT (Independ.... of truth) then read the Authentic Covenant of Abdul Baha that is being presented to you by Dear Fredrick." It can be found at Abdu'l-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html

On Soulpancake, and elsewhere, I am one more sinned against, than sinning, by your fellow Wilmette, Haifan Baha'is... as are many other Bahais of conscience... the record clearly demonstrates the fact, as does the *three* judgments by the US Federal courts. See The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship Your suggestion to "forgive" is therefore erroneous. I've done nothing nor said anything here on Soulpancake that requires "forgiveness." As a citizen and a Bahai I've merely shared my opinions and belief. Despite the fact that I made every effort at civility and politeness, it should be evident to any fair-minded observer that a number of Wilmette Baha'is self-righteously chose to treatment me in a reprehensible manner and casted aspersions of "covenant breaker" and so forth upon me. So I don't have anything to apologize for. I am the one owe a number of apologies, since you bring it up. Bahai regards.

Again, the irony is that they who are so quick to denounce their fellow citizens and Bahais as "Covenant Breakers" are actually the real covenant breakers, or I should say the deceived and brainwashed... It is characteristic of all fundamentalists interpretations, of various religions, that narrow definitions and behaviors become substitutes for the Spirit, brotherly love, respect, and so on, leading to smug self-righteousness and sanctimony on the part of adherents. Bahai regards.

As a fellow US citizen and Bahai, I respect your conscience.

It sad to witness American Baha'is, violating not only the teachings of Baha'ullah and Abdul-Baha, but the most basic tenets of the experience of the United States civic and cultural history. Fortunately, the US Federal Courts understand what a threat the spurious will and testament of Shoghi Effendi actually is, utterly rejecting the bogus Wilmette nsa's deluded claims THREE TIMES. "The Reform Bahai Faith submits to the Court that the NSA of Wilmette, while publicly hiding behind a facade of liberalism, is essentially practicing Islamic "takfir," in the words of the scholar of Islam Bernard Lewis, "recognizing and denouncing apostasy," labeling people "kafir" or infidels, and issuing "fatwas" or decrees, denying the very existence of other Bahais and denominations, all indicative of the worst in the Shiite Islamic heritage of the Bahai Faith-practices Baha'u'llah specifically rejected, teaching tolerance of different religious views congruent with modern Western custom and practice. Nothing could be more diametrically opposed to the democracy of our civic and legal order. The NSA of Wilmette is essentially seeking to use the Court in a type of jihad." Amici curiae, Reform Bahai Faith https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/USDistrictCourt07.htm

Incidentally, here's a link to a menu of other Bahai denominations and some of the US federal courtroom documents: 9 Bahai Denominations https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/ninedenominations.htm Also see US District Court of Northern Illinois rules against Haifan Baha'is - April 23, 2008 Amici curiae, Reform Bahai Faith https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/USDistrictCourt07.htm

Funny how you choose to misrepresent the pages that are printed in black and white in the Star of the West. That's entirely in line with the way the Wilmette nsa behaved in the court of Judge Amy St Eve, US District Court of Northern Illinois, and Judge Sykes of the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals. Honest researchers who want to may also verify the Google copies with the originals that Google scanned from major US university libraries. The irony is that the real "Covenant Breakers" are the so-called "mainstream" Baha'is of Wilmette and Haifa, who forged a will and testament to acquire power, relying on slander, abuse, and court room harassment to establish their "infallibility." Reform Bahais don't follow a "second" or "third" guardian, as the Orthodox Bahais and the other Baha'i denominations that frivolously sued by your "infallible uhj," all of whom have been unfortunately deceived by the criminal acts of Shoghi Effendi and his family, the family that was so corrupt that he ended up "excommunicating" them as well as anyone else he couldn't control and manipulate. Your tactics are blatantly the same.

Here are both Star of the West volumes on Google Books: Star of the West https://books.google.com/books?id=rw4YAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:LCCN2001221986 https://books.google.com/books?id=2A8YAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA16&dq=star+of+the+west+baha+date:0-1923&lr=&as_brr=1&as_pt=ALLTYPES#PPA1,M1 Again, the relevant pages: Abdul-Baha's Address Upon the Covenant was first published in Star of the West, November 23, 1912, 9-10; again, a mere year later in Star of the West, November 23, 1913, p. 234-9; and just before his death, emphasizing the importance of the 1912 Covenant exactly when Bahais needed to recall Abul-Baha's guidance the most, in Star of the West November 23, 1921. The reader may corroborate independently this publishing history of the Address Upon the Covenant since the entire 1912 to 1913 and 1920 to 1921 volumes of Star of the West can be download directly from Google Books. For the full 1912 Authentic Covenant and analysis: Abdu'l-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html Star of the West https://books.google.com/books?id=rw4YAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:LCCN2001221986 https://books.google.com/books?id=2A8YAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA16&dq=star+of+the+west+baha+date:0-1923&lr=&as_brr=1&as_pt=ALLTYPES#PPA1,M1 For the original pamphlet publication of the 1912 Covenant, see Bahai Teaching, 1912 Address Upon the Covenant https://fglaysher.com/reformbahai/images/Bahai_Teaching.pdf

The citations from Star of the West can easily be corroborated by anyone seeking the truth. Google Books has scanned the majority of the old volumes and has them online. Abdul-Baha's Address Upon the Covenant was first published in Star of the West, November 23, 1912, 9-10; again, a mere year later in Star of the West, November 23, 1913, p. 234-9; and just before his death, emphasizing the importance of the 1912 Covenant exactly when Bahais needed to recall Abul-Baha's guidance the most, in Star of the West November 23, 1921. The reader may corroborate independently this publishing history of the Address Upon the Covenant since the entire 1912 to 1913 and 1920 to 1921 volumes of Star of the West can be download directly from Google Books. https://fglaysher.com/reformbahai/images/Star_of_the_West_1912_231-232.pdf https://fglaysher.com/reformbahai/images/Star_of_the_West_1913_523-529.pdf https://fglaysher.com/reformbahai/images/Star_of_the_West_Nov_23-1921.pdf https://books.google.com/books?id=rw4YAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:0kRTYJKkYea-uBuZ8EC Why would you make such false allegations? As many Bahais have testified to, the tactics Wilmette and Haifan Bahais use are reprehensible. Documentation of the actual practice and behavior of Haifan Baha'is, instead of propaganda, can be found at The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/ A false will and testament, *forged*, never probated or authenticated, is NOT guidance. It's a crime. That people are brainwashed into believing in it doesn't change the fact. Nor does the deriding of other Bahai denominations by the Haifans, nor trying to destroy them through lawsuits in Federal courts. The Federal judges were NOT deceived.... Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals https://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/fdocs/docs.fwx?caseno=08-2306&submit=showdkt&yr=08&num=2306

Here's a review of Udo Schaefer's book by Denis MacEoin, an outstanding British scholar: Reviewed by Denis MacEoin, Dursley, Newcastle. June 2001: Udo Schaefer, Nicola Towfigh, and Ulrich Gollmer (contribs.), Making the Crooked Straight: A Contribution to Bahá’í Apologetics, trans. from German by Dr. Geraldine Schuckelt, 2000, George Ronald, Oxford, 863 pp. https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/MacEoinRev.htm

"Making the Crooked Straight": A false and bogus reading... Here are the citations: Abdul-Baha's Address Upon the Covenant was first published in Star of the West, November 23, 1912, 9-10; again, a mere year later in Star of the West, November 23, 1913, p. 234-9; and just before his death, emphasizing the importance of the 1912 Covenant exactly when Bahais needed to recall Abul-Baha's guidance the most, in Star of the West November 23, 1921. The reader may corroborate independently this publishing history of the Address Upon the Covenant since the entire 1912 to 1913 and 1920 to 1921 volumes of Star of the West can be download directly from Google Books. https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html

Actually, the old lie that has been promulgated is that of the purported will and testament of 1921. Ruth White and other early Bahais heard for themselves what Abdul-Baha repeatedly said in public and what WAS repeatedly published in the pages of the Star of the West prior to 1921. I invite people to read and decide for themselves, either through Google Books or the Reform Bahai Faith website: https://www.ReformBahai.org The Britannica statistics are bogus, as has been widely realized by many Bahais and others. For those interested in corroborating the fact for themselves see, False Membership Statistics for US Baha'i community & elsewhere https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/FalseStats.htm or Ontario Consultants on Religious Tolerance https://www.religioustolerance.org/

Not at all mistaken. Your grandmother was apparently deceived like many early Bahais. All of the exact citations and copies of the original pages are available at this link: An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html Again, too, is the publication of his Address Upon the Covenat: Abdu'l-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html

Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant was published repeatedly in the Star of the West between 1912 and 1921. It was universally acknowledged by the early Bahais. Only with the fraudulent will and testament of Shoghi Effendi was it shunted aside, leading to a thousand to two thousand Bahais leaving during the 1920s and '30s. Many knew Abdul-Baha, heard him deliver his Address Upon the Covenant in public, and that his Interpretation of Baha'u'llah's Teachings was being corrupted by Shoghi Effendi and his cabal. A copy may be found at the following link: Abdu'l-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html Ruth White's books document and discuss those events: Abdul Baha's Questioned Will and Testament. Beverly Hills: White, 1946. https://www.reformbahai.org/Ruth_White.html Bahai regards.

I invite you to read all of the Star of the West prior to Abdul-Baha's passing in 1921, with an independently open, truth-searching mind. For details, see, An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html

Since the putative will and testament of Abdul-Baha of 1921 was never probated or authenticated, the ideas you express are actually based on blind, unquestioning belief, not historical fact. I invite you and other Baha'is who think like you to consider: Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html Please note that much of the thinking you advance as the truth has been expressly rejected by the US Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals, Case No. 08-2306: Opinion, Judge Sykes, p 14-15: "Considered in light of these First Amendment limitations on the court’s authority, certain aspects of the 1966 injunction are troubling. The decree declares that “there is only one Baha’i Faith,” that Shoghi Effendi was its last Guardian and none has come since, and the National Spiritual Assembly was its representative and “highest authority” in the United States and was “entitled to exclusive use of the marks and symbols of the Faith,” including the exclusive use of the word “Bahá’í.” Declarations of this sort push the boundaries of the court’s authority under Kedroff and Presbyterian Church. In church property disputes (trademark suits obviously qualify), the First Amendment limits the sphere in which civil courts may operate. When a district judge takes sides in a religious schism, purports to decide matters of spiritual succession, and excludes dissenters from using the name, symbols, and marks of the faith (as distinct from the name and marks of a church), the First Amendment line appears to have been crossed" (boldface added). https://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/fdocs/docs.fwx?caseno=08-2306&submit=showdkt&yr=08&num=2306 The people causing the dissension are the ones who created a fraudulent will and testament and then brainwashed Americans and others for decades into believing in it. Bahai regards.

"I must confess that I know almost nothing
about the Baha'i religion & it's tenants
but they seem pretty peaceful and tolerant"

Thank you for saying you know "almost nothing" about the Wilmette-Haifan Baha'is. Let me share with you some of the educational details that the Wilmette seek to suppress, on and off the Internet:

The US Federal Courts know a great deal about that particular Bahai denomination since the Court has rejected THREE TIMES its lawsuits against several other Bahai denominations. See the Court documents and recording at
https://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/fdocs/docs.fwx?caseno=08-2306&submit=showdkt&yr=08&num=2306

See the Chicago Tribune article:
Federal appeals court rules in favor of splinter Baha'i group Orthodox believers can keep calling themselves Baha'i, court says. November 25, 2010 By Manya A. Brachear, Chicago Tribune reporter.
https://archive.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/11/federal-appeals-court-rules-in-favor-of-splinter-bahai-group.html

Extensive court documents available at and via
The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

Let me know what you think.

You're probably referring to the Wilmette-Haifan Baha'i cult. It's based on a fraudulent will and testament that many early Bahais objected to, realizing it was a forgery and utterly changing the nature of the Bahai Teachings from a universal, open religion to basically an oppressive, highly hierarchical religion largely modeled on the Catholic Church.

See details at About the Reform Bahai Faith
https://www.reformbahai.org/about.html

Abdu'l-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html

An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant
https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html

Hope this helps answer your question.

"https://bic.org/statements-and-reports/bic-statements/09-0204.htm
Reclaiming Freedom of Conscience, Religion or Belief to Promote Social Integration
Bahá'í International Community’s Statement to the 47th Session of the United Nations Commission for Social Development
4 February 2009?New York, New York"

The fact is that the Wilmette-Haifan Baha'i Faith does NOT respect "Freedom of Conscience," let alone even know what it means...

For instance, since 2006, it has repeatedly harassed and sued THREE other Baha'i denominations in US Federal Courts, seeking to deprive them of their Constitutional rights and destroy them:

Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals
Public Access to Oral Argument recordings, Opinions,
https://www.ca7.uscourts.gov/fdocs/docs.fwx?caseno=08-2306&submit=showdkt&yr=08&num=2306

Opinion of US 7th Circuit Court of Appeals, Case No. 08-2306 - November 23, 2010
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/US_7th_Circuit_Court_of_Appeals_11-23-2010.html

Baha'i Faith & 7th Circuit Court of Appeals
https://bahaifaith7thcircuitcourtofappeals.blogspot.com

Most Baha'is are probably unaware of the extent to which the "administration" that runs the Haifan denomination practices censorship and a fascist "world order," and has done so for decades...

For more details, see The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/

Your_Fellow_Felon, I think Baha'is are a fucking pain in the ass to tell you the truth.

The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience

Soulpancake, Baha'i google search ...a popular group partly begun by a comedian, apparently aimed at recruiting young and vulnerable people into the Wilmette-Haifan Baha'i denomination, pulling them in off TV.

For further discussion of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant, see
Interfaith Forum Bahai UK
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Interfaith_Forums_UK.html

Questions from Soulpancake Baha'i discussion forum
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/soulpancake_bahai.html

Are you a Baha'i? 135 RESPONSES

Why does Baha'i feel like a cult?

Oh, I want to ask too, how does that kind of fanaticism make it a "Very peaceful religion"?

I am not one who has advocated "revenge." What would it be? No, only the "truth shall set you free." It's that perspective that the Reform Bahai Faith is about. Skim around our website for a better sense.

The Reform Bahai Faith
https://www.ReformBahai.org

Well, with human beings involved, history is always a test for the individual and collective soul/souls... It seems the Divine Being wants it that way.

"If you really believe in IIOT (Independ.... of truth) then read the Authentic Covenant of Abdul Baha that is being presented to you by Dear Fredrick." It can be found at Abdu'l-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html

As a fellow US citizen and Bahai, I respect your conscience.

I invite you to read all of the Star of the West prior to Abdul-Baha's passing in 1921, with an independently open, truth-searching mind. For details, see, An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html

Baha'u'llah claimed to be the Manifestation of God for this day and age. If one believes that is true, one is a Bahai.

The word "convert" is problematical to me, in a sense. It's laden with the Christian past, to my taste; nuances like that linger around it. That's all. Best.

Homepage

The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience

Soulpancake, Baha'i google search ...a popular group partly begun by a comedian, apparently aimed at recruiting young and vulnerable people into the Wilmette-Haifan Baha'i denomination, pulling them in off TV.

For further discussion of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant, see Interfaith Forum Bahai UK https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Interfaith_Forums_UK.html

Questions from Soulpancake Baha'i discussion forum https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/soulpancake_bahai.html

Are you a Baha'i? 135 RESPONSES

Why does Baha'i feel like a cult?

Oh, I want to ask too, how does that kind of fanaticism make it a "Very peaceful religion"?

I am not one who has advocated "revenge." What would it be? No, only the "truth shall set you free." It's that perspective that the Reform Bahai Faith is about. Skim around our website for a better sense. The Reform Bahai Faith https://www.ReformBahai.org

Well, with human beings involved, history is always a test for the individual and collective soul/souls... It seems the Divine Being wants it that way.

"If you really believe in IIOT (Independ.... of truth) then read the Authentic Covenant of Abdul Baha that is being presented to you by Dear Fredrick." It can be found at Abdu'l-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant.html

As a fellow US citizen and Bahai, I respect your conscience.

I invite you to read all of the Star of the West prior to Abdul-Baha's passing in 1921, with an independently open, truth-searching mind. For details, see, An Analysis of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant https://www.reformbahai.org/Covenant_comments.html

Baha'u'llah claimed to be the Manifestation of God for this day and age. If one believes that is true, one is a Bahai. The word "convert" is problematical to me, in a sense. It's laden with the Christian past, to my taste; nuances like that linger around it. That's all. Best.

Homepage

For further discussion of Abdul-Baha's 1912 Authentic Covenant, see
Interfaith Forum Bahai UK
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Interfaith_Forums_UK.html

Questions from Soulpancake Baha'i discussion forum
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/soulpancake_bahai.html

I am not one who has advocated "revenge." What would it be? No, only the "truth shall set you free." It's that perspective that the Reform Bahai Faith is about. Skim around our website for a better sense.

The Reform Bahai Faith
https://www.ReformBahai.org

Baha'u'llah claimed to be the Manifestation of God for this day and age. If one believes that is true, one is a Bahai.

The word "convert" is problematical to me, in a sense. It's laden with the Christian past, to my taste; nuances like that linger around it. That's all. Best.