From: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
To: FG@hotmail.com <FG@hotmail.com>
Cc: fran@amber.crhc.uiuc.edu <fran@amber.crhc.uiuc.edu>
Subject: little round with SRB moderators
Date: Thursday, July 16, 1998 12:12 PM
Hi Fred,
Here's a little annotated email exchange I thought might
interest you. Just FYI. You can reuse it if that's of
any use.
--Fran
================================================================
I sent something I'd like to post to SRB to Rick Boatright,
because I know he's a moderator. Rick replied to send to another address.
================================================================
From boatright@topeka.cjnetworks.com Mon Jul 13 10:45:42 1998
Organization: Topeka Business Computers
To: fran@crhc.uiuc.edu (Fran Baker)
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:52:04 -0600
Send your replys to bahai-faith@bcca.org, which is the general in-box
for the moderators.
Rick Boatright
================================================================
I did so.
================================================================
From fran@crhc.uiuc.edu Mon Jul 13 11:44:39 1998
>From fran Mon Jul 13 11:44:40 1998
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:48:12 -0500
From: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
To: bahai-faith@bcca.org
CC: fran
Subject: When standard responses fail
Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
Subject: Re: standard message
References: <"R50HhD.A.R3D.LBCq1"@bounty.bcca.org>
Herbigjoe@aol.com writes:
>Dear Star, I think you are giving the people that ask you about the above
>things mis-information:
>1. No one say that women cannot serve on the UHJ. 'Abdul-Baha explains
>that
>women are exempt from serving (IMO by the Grace of God), and as promised,
>the
>reason for this provision will be "clear as the noon day" in the future.
>2. The prayers are in English, not in gender oversensitive new American.
>When one uses "he", this is considered gender neutral in English.
>3. There are no inheritance laws per se, only when one neglets to make a
>will, Baha'u'llah addresses intestacy in the Aqdas.
>All of the 3 points above have been discussed on this srb in great detail.
>IMHO, it is important to present the facts of the Faith as accurately as
>possible.
>Regards, Joe.........
Dear Joe,
It is a mistake to think that if you have an answer to an objection you
have a good answer to that objection. Sometimes a pat or standard
answer is just a way of *failing to listen*. These answers may deflect
the objections in your own mind, but if they fail to satisfy the person
raising them you might learn something by making the effort to
understand why this is so.
I am assuming here that you are interested in having a genuine
discussion (which is ideally approached with an open mind) and not just
a teaching conversation (which driven by the missionary agenda).
Sincerely,
Fran
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two is four." Orwell
================================================================
I got this response. Bogus? I don't really know.
I'm pretty sure I've seen lots of posting that don't
mention the Baha'i teachings per se.
================================================================
From smsmith@cybertrails.com Tue Jul 14 14:19:18 1998
From: "S. Michele Smith" <smsmith@cybertrails.com>
To: "Fran Baker" <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
Cc: "Baha'i SRB Moderators" <srb-mods@bcca.org>
Subject: Re: When standard responses fail
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 12:12:49 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4
X-Mozilla-Status: 0011
Content-Length: 2194
Dear Fran,
Your submission is being returned with the request that you make mention of the
Baha'i Teachings somewhere in your response as per charter. That way it can be
posted. As it is now, it appears to be simply a personal message to Joe.
Thank you for your understanding.
Sincerely,
Michele Smith
co-moderator
soc-religion-bahai
-----Original Message-----
[deleted]
================================================================
I tried again.
================================================================
From - Tue Jul 14 14:58:11 1998
Message-ID: <35ABB853.36D8@crhc.uiuc.edu>
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 14:58:11 -0500
From: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
To: "S. Michele Smith" <smsmith@cybertrails.com>
CC: Baha'i SRB Moderators fran <srb-mods@bcca.org>
Subject: Re: When standard responses fail
Dear Michelle,
This is the best I can do. Hope it is good enough. I at least
tried to make it less personal to Joe. I think it is relevant
to Baha'is and refers in a very general way to your scriptures,
of which I am largely ignorant. I am interested in the nature
of discourse about beliefs in general.
Thanks for your consideration,
Fran
S. Michele Smith wrote:
>
> Dear Fran,
>
> Your submission is being returned with the request that you make mention of the
> Baha'i Teachings somewhere in your response as per charter. That way it can be
> posted. As it is now, it appears to be simply a personal message to Joe.
>
> Thank you for your understanding.
>
> Sincerely,
> Michele Smith
> co-moderator
> soc-religion-bahai
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fran Baker <fran@crhc.uiuc.edu>
> To: bahai-faith@bcca.org <bahai-faith@bcca.org>
> Cc: fran@amber.crhc.uiuc.edu <fran@amber.crhc.uiuc.edu>
> Date: Monday, July 13, 1998 11:47 AM
> Subject: When standard responses fail
>
> Newsgroups: soc.religion.bahai
> Subject: Re: standard message
> References: <"R50HhD.A.R3D.LBCq1"@bounty.bcca.org>
>
> Herbigjoe@aol.com writes:
>
> >Dear Star, I think you are giving the people that ask you about the above
> >things mis-information:
>
> >1. No one say that women cannot serve on the UHJ. 'Abdul-Baha explains
> >that
> >women are exempt from serving (IMO by the Grace of God), and as promised,
> >the
> >reason for this provision will be "clear as the noon day" in the future.
>
> >2. The prayers are in English, not in gender oversensitive new American.
> >When one uses "he", this is considered gender neutral in English.
>
> >3. There are no inheritance laws per se, only when one neglets to make a
> >will, Baha'u'llah addresses intestacy in the Aqdas.
>
> >All of the 3 points above have been discussed on this srb in great detail.
>
> >IMHO, it is important to present the facts of the Faith as accurately as
> >possible.
>
> >Regards, Joe.........
>
> Dear Joe,
>
> It is a mistake to think that if you have an answer to an objection you
> have a good answer to that objection. Sometimes a pat or standard
> answer is just a way of *failing to listen*. These answers may deflect
> the objections in your own mind, but if they fail to satisfy the person
> raising them you might learn something by making the effort to
> understand why this is so.
>
> I am assuming here that you are interested in having a genuine
> discussion (which is ideally approached with an open mind) and not just
> a teaching conversation (which driven by the missionary agenda).
This is something I think all Bahai's who engage in teaching
conversations would benefit from keeping in mind. Many people are quick
to tune you out the minute they sense that the conversation is not "for
real" but for the sole purpose of converting them, i.e., that you are
not really willing to examine your own beliefs as you ask them to
examine theirs. Sorry, I can't make reference to Baha'i scripture, but
it interests me that often missionaries (of whatever group) don't
realize why they are not more effective, and I am suggesting one reason
they fail. This might be of interest to people wishing to be more
effective. It is important, though, not to pretend to be open minded,
but to really strive to be. I admit I have seen conflicting evidence
from people citing Baha'i scripture as to whether this is something
Baha'is are supposed to do in general (be open-minded about religious
matters). Perhaps being unable to doubt your position is a hallmark of
a religious as opposed to a philosophical viewpoint.
>
> Sincerely,
> Fran
>
> "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two is four." Orwell
================================================================
So far, nothing, and of course the discussion is long gone.
================================================================