|
From: "Fred Glaysher" <f_glaysher@hotmail.com>
To: <FG@hotmail.com>
Subject: Fwd: The Baha'i Faith
Date: Friday, September 08, 2000 6:13 AM
>From: "David W. Lehning" <dwlehning@home.com>
>To: <patrick_Henry@bigfoot.com>
>Subject: The Baha'i Faith
>Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2000 14:28:20 -0400
>
>
>Hello Patrick,
>
>I was looking at talk.religion.bahai and found your post. I then
visited the
>link that you had provided there. I am a former Baha'i who was more or
less
>driven out of the Faith by an increasingly authoritarian,
manipulative, and
>controlling admninistration. I am also gay, which makes the matter
even
>worse! It seems to me that these conditions have become worse since I
have
>left. I found my way to this news group after visiting a gay Baha'i's
Web
>site and then from a post in his message board. I am interested in
spiritual
>mysticism and the mystical aspects of sacred writings, but there was a
time
>quite a few years ago when I was even accused of being a Covenant
Breaker
>because of my "unauthorized interpretatation" of the Sacred
Baha'i Writings.
>I finally said enough, left the Faith, and really have no interest in
>returning, but I had become curious about the status of gays in the
Faith,
>and, as I said, that led me here. It does seem that people in the
Faith wear
>many faces. They can turn their friendly "Nice loving Baha'i"
face, then
>later, turn a very angry, judgemental, authoritarian face. To me, the
Baha'i
>faith is no better than any of the other orgainized religions. They
are just
>as controling, and prejudiced as everyone else. If you are still
active in
>the faith, you are a very brave soul. I desire to remain a free
spirit,
>seeker and mystic, unfettered by doctrines and religious authorities.
But
>for you, keep up the fight.
>
>Kind Regards,
>David W. Lehning
From: "Michel Boucher" <alsandorz@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: Old Friends
Date: Tuesday, June 27, 2000 6:13 PM
bn872@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Michael McKenny) a écrit dans
<8japmh$an2$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>:
>Greetings.
>An old friend looked in here to find my e-mail address.
You said enough in our brief meeting the other day to indicate where I
might
"find" you.
>Ah, how time flows and memories stir in the breeze of the years.
How
>much has passed since you told me of this wondrous medium of
>cyberspace.
Lemme see...that would have been around 1988, so twelve years :-)
>The USSR has ceased to be, and I in starry eyed
>innocence walked into Talisman to read the provisional translations
>of writings by Baha'u'llah not available elsewhere. And this petit
>gars from Ottawa became one of the articulate voices encouraging the
>Baha'is to choose a way embracing the open-mindedness so
>refreshingly a fundamental aspect of the teachings of their prophet.
Oooo...bad form...:-)
>I was one of them at the time, and you may enjoy reading some of
>what the spirit of this faith wafted at that time. The archives of
>this list contain copies of some of this material, and you may
>assess, as may any independent seeeker of truth, the value of the
>thoughts of these people who were hounded until they said they
>weren't Bahai's or, if they persisted in saying they were, were
>declared to be unqualified for membership in this religion.
In the immortal words of Mr. Fromkiss (the landlord in Dick van Dyke's
minor
comedy The Art of Love, with Elke Sommer (1965)): "My wife and I are
a busy
man".
>Personally, I became a Baha'i overwhelmed that God could be
providing
>for humanity to avoid the darkness of nuclear confrontation and
>guiding the species to harmonious life. Yet, when they so
>demonstrated, I accepted the evidence that those whose obligation it
>was to further this goal of the maturity of the Terran species had
>instead replicated the defects of previous totalitarian and divisive
>systems.
I questioned my reasons for joining the community, but I never
questioned my
reasons for leaving. To me, the entire matter was an intellectual
exercise
(which I still remember fondly) but it never had a spiritual
dimension. I
believe that it was the community life (or what the Children of God
called
"flirty fishy") that attracted so many, myself included. I
was not seeking
spiritual salvation, nor was I depressed or unhappy. I saw a vast
field of
research that was still to be undertaken and I undertook it. I did
my level
best to get copies of every Baha'i book, I read everything, not as a
personal
message but as an event in time. When I left, in 1975, after the
breakdown of
my marriage (my first...I have since successfully remarried twice ;-)), it
was
because I felt dishonest. I lost some good friends at that time and
kept some
others, you included, I trust. Some people shunned me even on the
street, some
felt it was their duty to tell me I had made a mistake. The thing
is, I don't
feel I made a mistake. My life in the last 25 years has been more
productive
and more fulfilling, both personally and socially, than it was during my
stint
as a Baha'i.
>I do not know whether it was ever humanly possible to achieve
the
>vision of Baha'u'llah, as we saw it in the old days, one vast
>diverse garden of humanity, fostering the open-minded search for
>truth, the harmony of reason and faith, the freedom of thought and
>expression, the balance of the feminine and masculine wings of the
>bird of the species -- ah, such golden dreams we had so long
ago.
Yeah, well...the best laid plans o' mice and men gang aft a'gley...
>Anyway, if you wish, go ahunting for the thoughts of your old
friend
>and others such as Juan Cole from those halcyon days in the mid 90s.
>And, judge for yourself the quality of opinions decreed heretical
>(in a religion whose author strove to overcome the concept of
>heresy).
I must admit that I was most taken aback by the institutional fascism
I have
been reading about of late. I admit that I did occasionally lurk in
these
newsgroups, but never for very long. This phenomenon started after I
left, I
have to admit. I don't recall any of this when I went to firesides
or feasts,
or in personal dealings with assemblies or their members.
>I have spent a lot of time recently very deeply exploring the
ways
>of those who were not monotheists. Unlike Juan Cole and some others,
>my opinion is that the inability of the UHJ to escape the contagion
>of power regardless of principle exposes the incapacity of the
>revealed monotheistic paradigm to provide for a mature human
>species.
So far, history supports you. All monotheistic religions (and I
suspect
organized polytheistic religions as well) are subject to a deformation of
the
fundamental message. And it always tends towards the more drastic
and
eventually community-reducing actions: shunning, denial, inquisitions...
Speaking of denial, I have been most surprised by the ability of the
Egyptian
religion(s) to persist, although this may be as much a function of the
almost
complete illiteracy of the believers as in the messages that were brought
by
the gods (Stargate SG-1 fans back off! Get your own sandwich! ;-))
>There are many strengths in polytheism, and the chief need,
>in my opinion, humanity has when it comes to religion, is the
>separation of church and state with the state based on liberal
>democracy.
In the Roman sense, religion is about binding people together who
share a
common belief. In the early days of Christianity, when Saul of
Tarsus was not
within earshot to chide and cajole, there was some chance of achieving
local
unity. But after the Council of Nicea, it was pretty well up to the
cool dude
in Rome to say what went.
Perhaps one of the most serious situations that the Baha'i Faith has
faced and
will continue to face is the fact that there is no Guardian. Without
a
Guardian (a divine institution), the House (another divine institution) is
left
without the balance it was intended to receive.
>Humans are too prone to catch the disease of dictatorial
>totalitarianism regardless of the particular source of their
>theoretical and practical power to allow leaders a legitimacy
>transcending liberal democracy, human rights, etc.
Not entirely. *Some* humans.
---------------
"Eating fries with cheese makes sense, mon eustsi."
Guy
To send private mail, get the zed out.
ICQ: 69205479 (take the five out)From: <kimsrobinson@my-deja.com>
Subject: Ex-Bahais
Date: Saturday, July 01, 2000 7:45 AM
"I think many Bahai's, inadvertently, have been leaving their
spiritual
education 'indoors'."
"Bahaism works better as a philosophy than as a religion or
theocratic
political system, as a world-embracing attitude rather than as an
absolutist, infallible institution."
"In ordinary times I'd struggle to visualize some examples of,
have
empathy with and have belief in the concepts of synergy and
interdependence. Then, with a spell of some Bahai writings, these
aspects would become concrete and seem attainable."
"Having gone through the process of inactive withdrawal I do know
that
it is only because of my significant Baha'i other, that I do have
contact with any Baha'is. Not because I do not like them (I still do
like many of the individual Baha'is I have known) but I feel like I am
the human face of a reality that is being vigorously denied and
ignored. I'm someone who said, albeit not with words, "I can't get
healing or help from this community no matter how hard I try; I don't
think the community is healthy; I don't want to become a teaching
clone; I'm not staying for my own sake." "
Want to take part in the dialogue?
https://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/exbahais
Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.From: "Mr Mahdi" <mrmahdi@aol.com>
Subject: Another bahai leaving the faith, was it because of Wendy?
Date: Saturday, April 22, 2000 8:25 PM
Wendy, one of the most notorious fanatical bahai missionary on the
Internet has
probably helped another bahai leave the Bahai cult. Her rude
behavior has
turned many people away from the bahai faith, and the town she lives in
only
has 16 bahais. Her is a post from a now ex-bahai that was posted in
the AOL
Message Boards:
Subject: My reasons for leaving the Baha'i Faith
Date: 4/22/00 6:52 PM Central Daylight Time
From: Wher888No
Message-id: <20000422195234.18303.00002868@ng-fz1.aol.com>
Today I have decided to leave the Baha'i Faith. I became a
Baha'i in 1994
after searching for what I believed was a tolerant religion. I
always believed
in God and wanted to follow a religion that I believed truly represented
God.
When I became a Baha'i, my fellow Baha'is were always nice to me and
treated me
with respect. I began to study more about the Baha'i Faith and felt
it to be
very true. I started to discuss my new religion with Christians,
Buddhists,
Muslims, atheists, etc. I wanted and often tried to prove how the
Baha'i Faith
fulfilled all the prophecies of all religions.
But some of the teachings of the Baha'i Faith kind of disturbed
me. I felt
that women should be allowed to participate in the UHJ and that gays
should
have more rights given to them by the Baha'i Faith. Later on I felt
that
trying to separate certain beliefs of religions from their creed wasn't
always
right because it made the non-Baha'is who followed their religion to be
somewhat going against their religion. Other factors such as the
shunning of
Covenant Breakers made not a whole lot of sense to me.
Today was the day I decided to leave the Baha' Faith. I wanted
to seek advice
in the chat room when Wendy made me feel unwelcome. She told me to
leave the
Baha'i Faith. I felt hurt by her statements. I am not saying
that Wendy was
the main reason why I left the Baha'i Faith today, be she sure helped the
process of me leaving because when I came in the chatroom, I had no plans
of
leaving the Baha'i Faith. I first met Wendy in the chatrooms 7
months ago and had a good relationship with each other, often we were
trying to
clear up the lies launch against the Baha'i Faith in the chatroom by
enemies of
the Faith. It is sad that she acted like this, and I hope that she
and the
rest of humanity have the best in life.
I would like to thank all the Baha'is who were so kind to me.
They gave me
comfort when I needed it and always showed me respect. I felt the
Baha'i Faith
has been a very positive experience in my life but I can no longer follow
its
teachings because of my personal beliefs. I forgive Wendy for her
actions and
hope that she continues her work in becoming the best Baha'i she can be.
May we all live in happiness
Denis
Mahdi
https://hometown.aol.com/mrmahdi
From: "Snoop81485" <snoop81485@aol.comspamfree>
Subject: Re: Welcome to unmoderated NGs on BF (was: Roman Catholic ...)
Date: Sunday, December 17, 2000 11:11 AM
>While such a person
>is a Baha'i, everything they see is simply not up to their Baha'i
>standards and there is no point in them doing a thing about it but
>rolling their eyes, wringing their hands and reciting "tsk"
95 times.
My own position as a former Baha'i - now Catholic - is that I got a
similar
response to whatever I proposed. Little or no honest consultation was held
-
just "this is the decision of the LSA and you'd better live with
it."
There is a general feeling among Baha'is that if a decision is made
after
consultation - even if that decision is wrong - Baha'is had best accept it
if
they are members of the rank-and-file. This is highly offensive to those
of us
who take our American right to free speech seriously (I threw in the word
"American" because I know a lot of you are citizens of other
countries). We
want the right to assert ourselves and not be forced to accept a decision
we
know to be wrong.
Robin Peters
My Themestream author's link, if you wish to read my articles:
https://www.themestream.com/authors/73826.html
One casualty - my wits, as in frightened out of.
Leonard McCoy, MD, ship's surgeon, USS Enterprise
Eliminate "spamfree" to email me
|