|
From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, March 09, 1998 8:39 AM
To: talisman
Subject: bahai-faith@coollist.com created
A new unmoderated mailing list on the Bahai Faith has been
created: bahai-faith@coollist.com
Those interested can subscribe to it at https://208.141.98.157/
The list should be able to be connected before long to
alt.religion.bahai, which will allow many people who have not
been able to access the alt.* hierarchy to read the discussion
there as well as to post back to it.
--
FG
----------
From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 1998 7:53 AM
To: FG
Subject: coollist membership # 1
Josh6396@aol.com
dbikman@bwc.org
fglaysh@hotmail.com
FG@hotmail.com
owner@sociologist.com
rmsolem@mke.ab.com
FG
----------
From: Island Business Center (Bill Hyman)[SMTP:billh@samoatelco.com]
Sent: Friday, March 13, 1998 5:38 PM
To: fglaysh@hotmail.com
Cc: Star Saffa
Subject: Request for enrollment
Dear Fred:
I have no antagonism towards you for what you are trying to do. I noticed
that I am on your "voted no" list for trb. I have subscribed to
bahai-faith@coollist.com in order to determine for myself whether it will
become a CB magnet. My observations will help me to decide how I will vote
next time. I did check out alt.religion.bahai in the archives and felt that
there was greater depth in srb, but that is to be expected as there is a
larger readership.
The proposed charter for trb was almost identical to srb, with the major
difference being that it would be unmoderated. As I expect you know, Baha'is
have been advised not to engage with discussions with CBs. Please explain
how flaming or CB content can be controlled without moderators.
My friend Star* Saffa would like to enroll on your coollist, but was not
able to. Please enroll her. Her address is starjo@arach.net.au.
Many thanks, Bill
----------
From: Teri Rhan[SMTP:trhan@serv.net]
Sent: Friday, March 13, 1998 2:13 PM
To: FG
Cc: srb-mods@bcca.org
Subject: Re: bahai-faith@coollist.com created
Well Fred, this newsgroup is about the teachings and discussion of the
Baha'i Faith. If you can find a way to tie your request into discussing
the Baha'i Faith and/or one of it's teachings without the use of
advertising and in a respectful manner, I'd be happy to consider it for
posting.
Teri Rhan
trhan@serv.net
Co-moderator, soc.religion.bahai
On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, FG wrote:
> I understand your point, I suppose.... I was just hoping SRB would
> be willing to lend a helping hand in what appears to me to be
> a new environment of possibile toleration for freedom of speech
> and conscience....
>
> I would hope a less confrontational approach could now be
> developed on both sides, helping people of all persuasions to
> move forward a little....
>
> Might I reword this message to some extent and see if a
> talented Bahai or reader of SRB might not have the technical
> ability to help?
>
> FG
> Usenet: alt.religion.bahai
> Listserv: bahai-faith@coollist.com
> (Subscribe at www.coollist.com, or, if you have only email capability,
> send me a message requesting you be added to the list.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Teri Rhan <trhan@serv.net>
> To: FG <FG@hotmail.com>
> Cc: srb moderators <srb-mods@bcca.org>
> Date: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 12:58 AM
> Subject: Re: bahai-faith@coollist.com created
>
>
> >Dear Fred,
> >I've posted your previous 2 messages about your new email list and felt
> >that was pushing it a bit about it but I have to draw the line here. This
> >is not a newsgroup for soliciting technical support.
> >
> >Good luck with your new list, I wish that sincerely.
> >
> >Teri Rhan
> >trhan@serv.net
> >Co-moderator, soc.religion.bahai
> >
> >On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, FG wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> FG wrote:
> >>
> >> >A new unmoderated mailing list on the Bahai Faith has been
> >> >created: bahai-faith@coollist.com
> >> >
> >> >Those interested can subscribe to it at https://208.141.98.157/
> >>
> >> I've received the following reply from Jonathan Grobe,
> >> group-mentor:
> >>
> >> >Sorry I don't have the facilities to do this. You need some special
> >> >software running on a host (for example mail2news). Ask your ISP,
> >> >on the mailing list, on alt.religion.bahai, on news.groups and
> >> >news.admin.misc. You might also ask Russ Albury for advice.
> >> >The bit.* hierarchy coordinator used to do this but the current
> >> >coordinator will only do it for faculty/staff at American University. No
> >> >one that I know is doing it generally.
> >>
> >> Anyone have the facilities and know-how?
> >>
> >> FG
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
----------
From: Island Business Center (Bill Hyman)[SMTP:billh@samoatelco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 6:37 PM
To: FG@hotmail.com
Cc: srb
Subject: FW: Posting Bahai-faith messages on SRB
Dear Fred:
Well, I caught this one. Cross posts from other forums are not covered by
our charter, so this submission will not be posted.
I noticed that last year some of my moderator comments were quoted on
alt.religion.bahai, but that may not be against its charter. I am sure that
I did not give my permission, neither do I now, for any list.
For your information there is no official list of Covenant Breakers
available to srb moderators, although some of us may have our own lists.
The text of messages is usually a giveaway. Yesterday I had two. The first I
had to read to determine its status. The second was from the same address so
I bounced it without reading it. One, so far, today is questionable and I am
attempting to get more information.
The moderators' duties do not include editing, but sometimes, I will do a
little extra and correct spelling errors. Long quotations are often snipped.
If you want to call us something other than moderators, why not snippers,
because we are not really editors. Do I detect a prejudice?
Nancy's quote below, which you agree with, is a little strange on a channel
which bears the name bahai-faith@coollist.com. One would presume that there
would be mostly members of the Bahai Faith on that channel and they should
have a good idea who the Covenant Breakers are.
Bill Hyman
co-moderator
soc-religion-bahai
----------
From: "FG" <FG@hotmail.com>
To: "SRB" <bahai-faith@bcca.org>,"bahai-faith at coollist.com"
<bahai-faith@coollist.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Posting Bahai-faith messages on SRB
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:33:39 -0500
Well that's exactly it.... Soc.religion.bahai, though, must have one.
Perhaps its editors could post a copy on here for the benefit of
all.
--
FG
Usenet: alt.religion.bahai
Listserv: bahai-faith@coollist.com
(Subscribe at www.coollist.com, or, if you have only email capability,
send me a message requesting you be added to the list.)
-----Original Message-----
From: LaAeterna <LaAeterna@aol.com>
To: bahai-faith@coollist.com <bahai-faith@coollist.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 5:31 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Posting Bahai-faith messages on SRB
>Star's question as to whether or not baha'i-coollist has a list of "CB's"
and
>filters out their messages seems an interesting point, when one considers
that
>each and every group of Baha'is calls the others Covenant Breakers.
Frederick
>would have a heck of a job trying to sort out who is a CB according to
whose
>group. Bonne chance, Frederick!!
>Nancy
>
> -------------------<< Advertisement >>-------------------
> High bandwidth usage? No problems.
>
> https://www.astrax.com - Astra X Specialised Web Hosting
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
----------
From: Rick Boatright[SMTP:boatright@cjnetworks.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 7:19 PM
To: FG
Cc: sbirkland@aol.com; Brent Poirier; srb-mods@bcca.org
Subject: Re: Fw: Posting Bahai-faith messages on SRB
Actually, of course, we don't since anyone can set up a hotmail or
juno account with any alias in merest moments.
In general, most anything posted from RT66.com is suspect, as the
home of the Joel Marguella folks. (Very Odd group.) We stay on the
watch for posts which ramble on about "Davidic Kings" which is the
signature of the Missula Montana people, and of course we have the
givien names, tho not nessesarily the email addresses of people
recently declared CB's listed in the American Baha'i. We try _hard_
not to accuse anyone in particular of being a CB, but rather simply
argue that we do not accept posts which argue for an alternate
succession of authority in the Baha'i Faith.
Coollist of course can't filter on content. With hotmail and Juno
accounts being the way they are, I see no way to reliably filter on
email address.
Filtering out anyone@rt66.com is probebly a "very wise" thing to do
however.
Rick Boatright
co-moderator
soc.religion.bahai
> Well that's exactly it.... Soc.religion.bahai, though, must have one.
> Perhaps its editors could post a copy on here for the benefit of
> all.
>
> --
> FG
> Usenet: alt.religion.bahai
> Listserv: bahai-faith@coollist.com
> (Subscribe at www.coollist.com, or, if you have only email capability,
> send me a message requesting you be added to the list.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LaAeterna <LaAeterna@aol.com>
> To: bahai-faith@coollist.com <bahai-faith@coollist.com>
> Date: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 5:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: Posting Bahai-faith messages on SRB
>
> >Star's question as to whether or not baha'i-coollist has a list of "CB's"
> and
> >filters out their messages seems an interesting point, when one considers
> that
> >each and every group of Baha'is calls the others Covenant Breakers.
> Frederick
> >would have a heck of a job trying to sort out who is a CB according to
> whose
> >group. Bonne chance, Frederick!!
> >Nancy
> >
> > -------------------<< Advertisement >>-------------------
> > High bandwidth usage? No problems.
> >
> > https://www.astrax.com - Astra X Specialised Web Hosting
> > ---------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
>
>
>
----------
From: FG[SMTP:FG@hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 1998 7:28 AM
To: FG
Subject: Final list of coollist subscribers 19
artist@coinet.com
davecrnll@aol.com
farmid@clinicomp.com
FG@hotmail.com
gsemler@pdi-corp.com
harris632@aol.com
jeffery.decker@usa.net
josh6396@aol.com
jwalker@ozdocs.net.au
laaeterna@aol.com
lucien.dol@xtra.co.nz
mbkafes@bestweb.net
mrscotty@mninter.net
owner@sociologist.com
rmsolem@mke.ab.com
shinsato@inxight.com
starjo@arach.net.au
tommycarter@usa.net
whitbrandt@mailcity.com
FG
Usenet: alt.religion.bahai
Listserv: bahai-faith@coollist.com
(Subscribe at www.coollist.com, or, if you have only email capability,
send me a message requesting you be added to the list.)
----------
From: LaAeterna[SMTP:LaAeterna@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 2:26 PM
To: bahai-faith@coollist.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Annotated NO voter's list: talk.religion.bahai
I think the part that disturbs me the most about this forwarded series of
messages is the antagonism evident in the postings about alt.religion.baha'i.
I never have understood why there must be such a confrontational attitude
towards those who wish for a non-moderated environment within which to discuss
different aspects of the faith?
Nancy
-------------------<< Advertisement >>-------------------
High bandwidth usage? No problems.
https://www.astrax.com - Astra X Specialised Web Hosting
---------------------------------------------------------
----------
From: Semler, Gretchen[SMTP:gsemler@PDI-CORP.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 2:26 PM
To: bahai-faith@coollist.com
Subject: Re: NO voter's list: LaAeterna comment
>I never have understood why there must be such a confrontational attitude
>towards those who wish for a non-moderated environment within which to
discuss
>different aspects of the faith?
>Nancy
Nancy, I understand your viewpoint, as I share it. Unfortunately, as
with anything else people feel strongly about, some will inevitably find
that the very idea of discussing other opinions about something they
"know" is "true" causes great anger. Humans, in our fragile physical
bodies, are various degrees of strong in willpower not to flame others
or try to block others. Ditto the acceptance ability. It can be
learned, but many don't see it as needful.
I would not worry. Nothing can stop those who wish to discuss ideas
with others. I ran across a quote the other day, while visiting a site,
that had to do with Baha'u'llah (spell?) saying something along the
lines of truth shining through only after the clash of differing
opinions. (I don't think I remember the whole quote, so I'm just
writing that much.)
Many other faiths have this same problem. Indeed, more and bitterer
wars were begun from a difference of opinion over religion than from any
other reason, through the history of mankind. We've a sad history, but
as long as there's a core (from all over the world) that keeps striving
to become "more," there will always be hope for all.
G Semler
-------------------<< Advertisement >>-------------------
High bandwidth usage? No problems.
https://www.astrax.com - Astra X Specialised Web Hosting
---------------------------------------------------------
----------
From: LaAeterna[SMTP:LaAeterna@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 2:26 PM
To: bahai-faith@coollist.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Knowledge of good and evil
Fran Baker states she doubts whether Baha'is can tell good from evil...and
that Abdul Baha's writings on the subject are "hopelessly banal..." I infer
from her statements that she hopes to find the answer for what is supposedly
good and what is evil within a human's own conscience?
But then she quotes from the Bible--this reinforces my impression that the
very concept of good vs evil is not one which she can trace back to someone
who had an apple fall on his/her head, so to speak (to borrow shamelessly from
a Newtonian myth :) The discussion of morality has been pretty much
originated by the Manifestations and has evolved from "Know thyself" (and then
forget thyself, hopefully!) to the Golden Rule, to "do unto others.." and
finally: "treat others BETTER than you might treat yourself..." difficult
concepts, perhaps banal to someone not inclined to self sacrifice, but
definitely appealing to many, for they lay a foundation of behavioral
standards which when followed increase the possibility of a peaceful world.
Nancy
-------------------<< Advertisement >>-------------------
Superior connectivity. World class hosting.
Astra Labs WebHosting - https://www.astraweb.com
---------------------------------------------------------
----------
From: LaAeterna[SMTP:LaAeterna@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 2:26 PM
To: bahai-faith@coollist.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Robert Henderson & Abortion
Derrick Evanson objects to the deliberate concealment of the law against
elective abortion. I think the UHJ put this out publicly in a letter to the
believers (or perhaps to one believer, I don't exactly recall). It was posted
on srb about a month ago, so if you have archives available you can pull that
up. The question is: how many people actually READ what is put out by the
UHJ? There shouldn't be any ignorance about their official position, unless
these letters and manifests are being kept away from the believers (not being
privvy to any of the material, I depend on some friends to send them to me so
I can see what's happening in that community).
I think the problem lies largely in the general atmosphere of trying to
create 'entry by troops." You are presenting a conservative agenda to a
society that has degenerated to a point of animalistic behavior, and who
doesn't want to hear about self control, chastity, no drugs, no alcohol, etc.
This leads to resistance, which leads to lack of inductees, so to speak. I
think this is why the Faith has more success in countries hwere life is
simpler and some moral values linger. When my parents were young and
pioneered for the Faith, they were amazed and horrified at the manner in which
many Baha'is "watered down" the Teachings to make them acceptable to possible
converts. Too many young people were coming into the Faith not knowing that
alcohol was forbidden and promiscuous sex as well. When they found out about
these injunctions, they left again, in what Dr Cole calls the "revolving door"
effect.
It is but a fulfillment of Shoghi Effendi's warnings: we have become a sick
society indeed. It is up to the Baha'is to demonstrate that living a life of
self discipline can actually feel good, rather than trying to hide the fact so
people don't think you're a prude, or too "straight," or whatever label they
come up with for those who try to live sanely in an insane world...
nancy
-------------------<< Advertisement >>-------------------
Superior connectivity. World class hosting.
Astra Labs WebHosting - https://www.astraweb.com
---------------------------------------------------------
----------
From: LaAeterna[SMTP:LaAeterna@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 2:26 PM
To: bahai-faith@coollist.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Baha'i teachings
I think the problem with the Resurrection discussion lies in the importance
Christians (and Dale, evidently) attach to physicality vs spirituality. If
you will recall, in the history of the Christian faith, Christ's "godhood"
wasn't as great an issue until the Council of Nicaea, where the bishops met
and decided this interpretation was the only valid one. They then proceeded
to persecute as heretics those who did not agree with them( as I recall, two
bishops disagreed right then and were banished). This came about some three
centuries after Christ's death, which would imply that until then the
believers didn't all think Christ was the Son of God, nor did they have the
concept of the Trinity, something created later by these bishops ( i.e. the
evolution of the Nicene Creed).
I would ask: why is the physical so important, that it transcends any
discussion of the spiritual? Also, if God has children, doesn't that create
an anthropomorphic vision of His reality, one which limits Him to our
interpretations and understanding? Furthermore, doesn't that imply some sort
of centrality of importance of planet earth vs the rest of the universe, a
position the Church has had to let go of gradually since medieval times? The
Baha'i vision is one of universality and infinity, concepts which cannot agree
with those which state that the earth is the only place in the universe where
God would have manifested Himself by bearing a child, because He loves "us"
(read: the human species) above all other species in the infinite universe.
This concept is at variance with the Baha'i understanding of spiritual
evolution .
Nancy
-------------------<< Advertisement >>-------------------
200,000 exposures for $450? Where?
--> Coollist - https://www.coollist.com/advertise.htm
---------------------------------------------------------
----------
From: LaAeterna[SMTP:LaAeterna@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 2:26 PM
To: bahai-faith@coollist.com
Subject: Re: Fw: Posting Bahai-faith messages on SRB
Star's question as to whether or not baha'i-coollist has a list of "CB's" and
filters out their messages seems an interesting point, when one considers that
each and every group of Baha'is calls the others Covenant Breakers. Frederick
would have a heck of a job trying to sort out who is a CB according to whose
group. Bonne chance, Frederick!!
Nancy
-------------------<< Advertisement >>-------------------
High bandwidth usage? No problems.
https://www.astrax.com - Astra X Specialised Web Hosting
---------------------------------------------------------
----------
From: rmsolem@mke.ab.com[SMTP:rmsolem@mke.ab.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 2:26 PM
To: bahai-faith@coollist.com
Subject: Re: Posting Bahai-faith messages on SRB
>Star's question as to whether or not baha'i-coollist has a list of "CB's" and
>filters out their messages seems an interesting point, when one considers that
>each and every group of Baha'is calls the others Covenant Breakers. Frederick
>would have a heck of a job trying to sort out who is a CB according to whose
>group. Bonne chance, Frederick!!
>Nancy
The SRB (soc.religion.bahai) newsgroup deletes all Covenant Breaker posts.
The ARB (alt.religion.bahai) newsgroup is for the most part inaccessible
and not used.
The Talisman list asks that people not post Covenant Breaker content, but
isn't firm on keeping that rule.
So here we are on the new Baha'i-coollist. Please can't we finally have
an OPEN DISCUSSION without any deletions or self censorship? Let's see
the spark of truth come out of the clash of differing opinions and not
modify our discussions to meet the criteria for SRB. We are not SRB, if
we were why would this list even exist?
As it was pointed out above, who actually is a Covenant Breaker is an
open question and it depends on who you talk to. In addition to that how
long are these Covenant Breaking ideas considered to be dangerous?
I can go back to Baha'i books and find out in detail what some early
divisions were about and I'm totally immune to falling into any of those
ideas that seems petty or ridiculous now. With some study I could refute
all of them.
I have found out that Shoghi Effendi himself dealt with those Covenant
Breakers concerning the authenticity of 'Abdul-Baha's Will & Testament
and then we are told not to address believers questions concerning some
of the current Covenant Breaker ideas?
Now the issue still remains concerning the details of the establishment
of the Universal House of Justice following the death of Shoghi Effendi,
41 years ago! If people are still trying to shut people up about this it
makes me suspicious of why they feel it's still necessary to do so. New
Baha'is come into the faith every day and this repeatedly seems to be a
difficult area for them to understand. I know it was for me. Let's talk
about it and teach! Dysfunctional families ignore their problems, healthy
ones lay it all out on the table. Is this really a Covenant Breaker issue
or just history?
In the book (can't remember the exact title because I don't own it) "The
Babi and Baha'i Faiths Bibliography in the English Language" they have
cataloged all of the Covenant Breaker writings and have even summarized
many of them. So does this mean that archivists are somehow immune to
their ideas because they have read them? There appears to be a double
standard here.
Call me naive but you'd think that an open and free discussion of these
issues for those who choose to discuss them would either clear the air or
develope into a meaningful debate that we all could learn from. I've seen
some of these Covenant Breaker posts and for the most part I don't think
most Baha'is actually have the knowledge to discuss them intelligently.
It's time we all learned how to address this stuff.
I say post everything and let the user decide what to read, what to
delete and what to reply to.
Robert Solem
-------------------<< Advertisement >>-------------------
High bandwidth usage? No problems.
https://www.astrax.com - Astra X Specialised Web Hosting
---------------------------------------------------------
Homepage
|