From: "Dermod Ryder" <Grim_Reaper_Mk2@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Disgraceful bahai speak
Date: Wednesday, February 05, 2003 3:13 AM
"Seegar" <sendithereifyoulike@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fd8v3v8h82o0mdva3d624m6re0p8hj78qf@4ax.com...
> I would agree with you were it not for the threatened legal action
> factor, which throws your argument up ended.
The threatened legal action is a non-starter. His only ground for
such would be harrassment which, by definition, would be more than one
contact. A letter confirming he had been removed from the mailing
list would not be grounds for legal action as it would only be
acknowledging that his expressed wish had been carried out.
Similarly a letter from the AO informing him that he had been
disenrolled would not constitute harrassment and would not be grounds
for legal action in that area. Most people would accept third party
information to the effect that they had been disenrolled and move on -
but not Fred, to his everlasting credit. The AO altered the
relationship twixt it and him - it has a moral, if not legal
obligation, to inform him of that alteration. Until it does he still
remains a BIGS.
> Calling yourself a monster is not good for your self esteem.
Who are you kidding?
> Buck up
> me lad, maybe you'll find a princess and she'll grace you with a
> transformational kiss.
I have my little princess, more commonly known as the Doodlebug.
> >Hold on - you're the baddie but I didn't treat you unfairly!
>
> Says you and didn't say you did
True!
Dermod.
From: FG (BI*P*GS@LIBERTY.COM)
Subject: Farewell Friends
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai, talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2003-10-06 05:06:10 PST
October 6, 2003
Farewell Friends,
A number of changes have taken place in my life
during the last several months that necessitate
I forgo my continuing defense of Abdul-Baha's
respect for free speech and conscience, at least
as an active online participant. Since many might
well imagine the rumors and libel that would
circulate, should I just disappear from cyberspace,
I feel it necessary to post this farewell note.
Having witnessed and suffered bahai tyranny and
slander, on and offline since 1996, I little
expect it to diminish with my withdrawal to other
pursuits and responsibilities. However, I leave
heartened by the knowledge that so many thousands
of people now know the truth about the fundamentalists
among my fellow bahais and their many shameful acts
of tyranny, oppression, and injustice. Equally
encouraging are the many voices of conscience that
have arisen to champion the sanctity of the
individual soul throughout bahai cyberspace.
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
will remain online for those who find it a useful
resource and archive. Should any major document
or incident take place or come to light, I would
be happy to make it available and preserve it for
the benefit of my fellow bahais, who follow
Abdul-Baha's clear and unequivocal Teaching, and
for my fellow citizens, less they be deceived
with impunity.
Those who have stood and fought for the rights
of the individual, in the face of a wholly corrupted
administrative order, have my undying respect.
May God grant you the inner strength and resources
to carry on....
I may be reached at bahaicensorship@FG.com
via the Contact link on my website.
FG
The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/
Interested persons and newcomers may glean my personal story at
To the Universal House of Justice - March 31, 1997
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm
"Please remove my name and address from your mailing list."
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/nsa1996.htm
Why I Don't Respond to Fundamentalists among my Fellow Baha'is
https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Why1.htm
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 2 in thread
From: John R MacLeod (jrmacleod@consultant.com)
Subject: Re: Farewell Friends
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai, talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2003-10-06 05:40:56 PST
Goodbye and good luck with whatever you do.
"FG" <BI*P*GS@LIBERTY.COM> wrote in message
news:blrlrg$afpli$1@ID-75545.news.uni-berlin.de...
> October 6, 2003
>
> Farewell Friends,
>
> A number of changes have taken place in my life
> during the last several months that necessitate
> I forgo my continuing defense of Abdul-Baha's
> respect for free speech and conscience, at least
> as an active online participant. Since many might
> well imagine the rumors and libel that would
> circulate, should I just disappear from cyberspace,
> I feel it necessary to post this farewell note.
>
> Having witnessed and suffered bahai tyranny and
> slander, on and offline since 1996, I little
> expect it to diminish with my withdrawal to other
> pursuits and responsibilities. However, I leave
> heartened by the knowledge that so many thousands
> of people now know the truth about the fundamentalists
> among my fellow bahais and their many shameful acts
> of tyranny, oppression, and injustice. Equally
> encouraging are the many voices of conscience that
> have arisen to champion the sanctity of the
> individual soul throughout bahai cyberspace.
>
> The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
> will remain online for those who find it a useful
> resource and archive. Should any major document
> or incident take place or come to light, I would
> be happy to make it available and preserve it for
> the benefit of my fellow bahais, who follow
> Abdul-Baha's clear and unequivocal Teaching, and
> for my fellow citizens, less they be deceived
> with impunity.
>
> Those who have stood and fought for the rights
> of the individual, in the face of a wholly corrupted
> administrative order, have my undying respect.
> May God grant you the inner strength and resources
> to carry on....
>
> I may be reached at bahaicensorship@FG.com
> via the Contact link on my website.
>
Read the rest of this message... (23 more lines)
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 3 in thread
From: Eric Stetson (ericstetson@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Farewell Friends
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai, talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2003-10-06 10:51:23 PST
"FG" <BI*P*GS@LIBERTY.COM> wrote in message
news:<blrlrg$afpli$1@ID-75545.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> October 6, 2003
>
> Farewell Friends,
Fred, may God bless you for the excellent and courageous work you have
done to expose the problems in the Baha'i Faith and defend free speech
and religious freedom of conscience.
Best,
Eric
Eric Stetson
Ex-Baha'i Christian Testimony
https://www.bahai-faith.com
Ex-Baha'i Discussion & Debate
https://groups.yahoo.com/group/ex-bahai
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 4 in thread
From: Randy Burns (randy.burns4@gte.net)
Subject: Re: Farewell Friends
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai, talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2003-10-06 11:20:02 PST
Good luck, Fred. Thanks for TRB!
Cheers, Randy
--
"FG" <BI*P*GS@LIBERTY.COM> wrote in message
news:blrlrg$afpli$1@ID-75545.news.uni-berlin.de...
> October 6, 2003
>
> Farewell Friends,
>
> A number of changes have taken place in my life
> during the last several months that necessitate
> I forgo my continuing defense of Abdul-Baha's
> respect for free speech and conscience, at least
> as an active online participant. Since many might
> well imagine the rumors and libel that would
> circulate, should I just disappear from cyberspace,
> I feel it necessary to post this farewell note.
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 5 in thread
From: Steve Marshall (asmarsh@es.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Farewell Friends
View this article only
Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2003-10-06 14:17:19 PST
On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:05:30 -0400, "FG"
>Farewell Friends,
All the best, Fred. I know we haven't seen eye-to-eye, but I do hope
things go well for you.
kia kaha,
Steve
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 6 in thread
From: Freethought110 (freethought110@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Farewell Friends
View this article only
Newsgroups: talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2003-10-06 23:24:09 PST
Steve Marshall <asmarsh@es.co.nz> wrote in message
news:<e5n3ovs73aibjb3elr0f9splgh1hkrs8bu@4ax.com>...
> On Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:05:30 -0400, "FG"
> >Farewell Friends,
>
> All the best, Fred. I know we haven't seen eye-to-eye, but I do hope
> things go well for you.
Funny, you have never managed to see eye-to-eye with any real
dissident, but rather your eyes always somehow manage to meet those
who are servants of this cult, such as Pat Kohli, Susan Maniac, etc.
You rarely even saw eye-to-eye with Juan.
> kia kaha,
kuni kaka
> Steve
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 7 in thread
From: Starr* (starrjo99@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Farewell Friends
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai, talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2003-10-06 15:29:56 PST
"FG" <BI*P*GS@LIBERTY.COM> wrote in message
news:<blrlrg$afpli$1@ID-75545.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> October 6, 2003
Dear Fred,
Having been with you since your struggle to establish TRB, it's
inception and your fight for 'continuing defense of Abdul-Baha's
respect for free speech and conscience' I can only congratulate you
for a job well done of upholding this fundamental principle. Indeed
without it all other principles fade in meaning. May your work further
contribute to this principle permeating the global village. Thanking
you, missing you, and wishing you a joyous journey in all your
pursuits.
With kind and loving regards
In the Spirit of Tahirih
Starr* Saffa
>
> Farewell Friends,
>
> A number of changes have taken place in my life
> during the last several months that necessitate
> I forgo my continuing defense of Abdul-Baha's
> respect for free speech and conscience, at least
> as an active online participant. Since many might
> well imagine the rumors and libel that would
> circulate, should I just disappear from cyberspace,
> I feel it necessary to post this farewell note.
>
> Having witnessed and suffered bahai tyranny and
> slander, on and offline since 1996, I little
> expect it to diminish with my withdrawal to other
> pursuits and responsibilities. However, I leave
> heartened by the knowledge that so many thousands
> of people now know the truth about the fundamentalists
> among my fellow bahais and their many shameful acts
> of tyranny, oppression, and injustice. Equally
> encouraging are the many voices of conscience that
> have arisen to champion the sanctity of the
> individual soul throughout bahai cyberspace.
>
> The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
> will remain online for those who find it a useful
> resource and archive. Should any major document
> or incident take place or come to light, I would
> be happy to make it available and preserve it for
> the benefit of my fellow bahais, who follow
> Abdul-Baha's clear and unequivocal Teaching, and
Read the rest of this message... (27 more lines)
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 8 in thread
From: Pat Kohli (kohliCUT_THE_CAPS@ameritel.net)
Subject: Re: Farewell Friends
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai, talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2003-10-06 17:03:45 PST
FG wrote:
> October 6, 2003
>
> Farewell Friends,
>
Farewell, FG!
- Pat
kohli at ameritel.net
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 9 in thread
From: Freethought110 (freethought110@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Farewell Friends
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai, talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2003-10-06 22:56:56 PST
Pat Kohli <kohliCUT_THE_CAPS@ameritel.net> wrote in message
news:<3F820466.B8DEAA4@ameritel.net>...
> FG wrote:
>
> > October 6, 2003
> >
> > Farewell Friends,
> >
>
> Farewell, FG!
Of course, the day to really rejoice is when it is farewell for good
to you and your lot, dipshit cultist!
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 10 in thread
From: Freethought110 (freethought110@yahoo.com)
Subject: Re: Farewell Friends
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai, talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2003-10-06 17:25:19 PST
Don't go, Fred. You, your presence and website are a mine rich in the
gems of inestimable truth. Don't throw in the towel, yet!
"FG" <BI*P*GS@LIBERTY.COM> wrote in message
news:<blrlrg$afpli$1@ID-75545.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> October 6, 2003
>
> Farewell Friends,
>
> A number of changes have taken place in my life
> during the last several months that necessitate
> I forgo my continuing defense of Abdul-Baha's
> respect for free speech and conscience, at least
> as an active online participant. Since many might
> well imagine the rumors and libel that would
> circulate, should I just disappear from cyberspace,
> I feel it necessary to post this farewell note.
>
> Having witnessed and suffered bahai tyranny and
> slander, on and offline since 1996, I little
> expect it to diminish with my withdrawal to other
> pursuits and responsibilities. However, I leave
> heartened by the knowledge that so many thousands
> of people now know the truth about the fundamentalists
> among my fellow bahais and their many shameful acts
> of tyranny, oppression, and injustice. Equally
> encouraging are the many voices of conscience that
> have arisen to champion the sanctity of the
> individual soul throughout bahai cyberspace.
>
> The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
> will remain online for those who find it a useful
> resource and archive. Should any major document
> or incident take place or come to light, I would
> be happy to make it available and preserve it for
> the benefit of my fellow bahais, who follow
> Abdul-Baha's clear and unequivocal Teaching, and
> for my fellow citizens, less they be deceived
> with impunity.
>
> Those who have stood and fought for the rights
> of the individual, in the face of a wholly corrupted
> administrative order, have my undying respect.
> May God grant you the inner strength and resources
> to carry on....
>
> I may be reached at bahaicensorship@FG.com
> via the Contact link on my website.
>
> FG
> The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
> https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/
>
>
> Interested persons and newcomers may glean my personal story at
>
> To the Universal House of Justice - March 31, 1997
> https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/To-UHJ1.htm
>
> "Please remove my name and address from your mailing list."
> https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/nsa1996.htm
>
> Why I Don't Respond to Fundamentalists among my Fellow Baha'is
> https://fglaysher.com/bahaicensorship/Why1.htm
Post a follow-up to this message
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next 2
Jump to [ End of thread ]
From: Rod (kashani@tpg.com.au)
Subject: Re: Farewell Friends
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai, talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2003-10-06 17:51:20 PST
"I think over again my small adventures
My fears
Those small ones that seemed so big
For all the vital things
I had to get and to reach
And yet there is only one great thing
The only thing
To live to see the great day that dawns
And the light that fills the world"
Old Inuit Song
All the best and many thanks Fred
Rod Wicks, fellow Associate Member- Changi Literary Society
FG <BI*P*GS@LIBERTY.COM> wrote in message
news:blrlrg$afpli$1@ID-75545.news.uni-berlin.de...
> October 6, 2003
>
> Farewell Friends,
>
> A number of changes have taken place in my life
> during the last several months that necessitate
> I forgo my continuing defense of Abdul-Baha's
> respect for free speech and conscience, at least
> as an active online participant. Since many might
> well imagine the rumors and libel that would
> circulate, should I just disappear from cyberspace,
> I feel it necessary to post this farewell note.
>
> Having witnessed and suffered bahai tyranny and
> slander, on and offline since 1996, I little
> expect it to diminish with my withdrawal to other
> pursuits and responsibilities. However, I leave
> heartened by the knowledge that so many thousands
> of people now know the truth about the fundamentalists
> among my fellow bahais and their many shameful acts
> of tyranny, oppression, and injustice. Equally
> encouraging are the many voices of conscience that
> have arisen to champion the sanctity of the
> individual soul throughout bahai cyberspace.
>
> The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
> will remain online for those who find it a useful
> resource and archive. Should any major document
> or incident take place or come to light, I would
> be happy to make it available and preserve it for
> the benefit of my fellow bahais, who follow
Read the rest of this message... (36 more lines)
Post a follow-up to this message
Message 12 in thread
From: Martin (esperanto@excite.com)
Subject: Farewell Friends
View this article only
Newsgroups: alt.religion.bahai, talk.religion.bahai
Date: 2003-10-07 06:46:10 PST
Dear FG,
Sometimes we have obligations that impede us to do everything we would
like, your participation in the forums was quite interesting and the
greatest legacy you leave us is arb and trb, where different ideas
were able to circulate in spite of the efforts of some fanatical
heterodox Baha'is. Thanks a bunch for those places of free discussion!
Sincerely,
Martin
https://bahai-guardian.com/
> October 6, 2003
>
> Farewell Friends,
>
> A number of changes have taken place in my life
> during the last several months that necessitate
> I forgo my continuing defense of Abdul-Baha's
> respect for free speech and conscience, at least
> as an active online participant. Since many might
> well imagine the rumors and libel that would
> circulate, should I just disappear from cyberspace,
> I feel it necessary to post this farewell note.
>
> Having witnessed and suffered bahai tyranny and
> slander, on and offline since 1996, I little
> expect it to diminish with my withdrawal to other
> pursuits and responsibilities. However, I leave
> heartened by the knowledge that so many thousands
> of people now know the truth about the fundamentalists
> among my fellow bahais and their many shameful acts
> of tyranny, oppression, and injustice. Equally
> encouraging are the many voices of conscience that
> have arisen to champion the sanctity of the
> individual soul throughout bahai cyberspace.
>
> The Bahai Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience
> will remain online for those who find it a useful
> resource and archive. Should any major document
> or incident take place or come to light, I would
> be happy to make it available and preserve it for
> the benefit of my fellow bahais, who follow
> Abdul-Baha's clear and unequivocal Teaching, and
> for my fellow citizens, less they be deceived
> with impunity.
>
> Those who have stood and fought for the rights
Read the rest of this message... (23 more lines)
Post a follow-up to this message
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Response from:
Jim46
10/7/03 11:56 AM 2 out of 2
To better appreciate the value of Fred's work, consider this:
In addition to the wealth of guidance in the Bahá'í teachings applying to
situations of domestic violence, we wish to acknowledge that such a thorough
treatment of the subject would not have been possible without the contributions
and sacrifices of the multitude of individuals and organizations who are
carrying forward programs of research, prevention, intervention, legislation,
and remediation, often impelled by courageous individuals who have spoken out
about abuse, by stories of those who have suffered the consequences and by aware
individuals seeking to change society for the benefit of present and future
generations.
- National Spiritual Assembly, "Guidelines for Spiritual Assemblies on Domestic
Violence."
The above refers to abuse within homes and families, but I think it applies just
as well to abuse within the Baha'i family.
Jim
From: "Rod" <kashani@tpg.com.au>
Subject: Believer Beware- Turf War
Date: Saturday, November 15, 2003 10:31 PM
The Baha'i cyberspace Turf War is no different
to any other conflict over ideological territory.
Each side attempts to capture the moral/ethical/
intellectual high ground.
What distinguishes this conflict is the absence
of any mutually agreed code of conduct and the
absence of any preparedness to consider or establish
same.
Any conflict conducted without agreed limits,
boundaries and defined code rapidly degenerates
into a no holds barred dangerous anarchic free for
all.
Here are the street fighting tactics employed to date
by the 'Baha'i Apologists' (a group who present
themselves as the true representatives and true
defenders of the Faith)-
1/ The 'Feint'- the appearance of standing toe to toe
to discuss the point while actually employing a range
of evasive devices- ( The straw man, the peripheral
or non issue, the misrepresentation, the red herring
or furphy).
2/ The 'Play Dead' or 'Blind Eye'- an escalation of
the 'Feint'- to ignore the issue and/or the post/thread
completely and/or to subsequently attack the issue in
another thread or via 'Drive By' (see below).
The 'Play Dead' is often accompanied by its variant-
the unjustified and/or unexplained killfile.
(See Susan for details)
A further variant is the 'Wise Monkeys' (?) or 'I
See No Shits' blind eye turned to seriously abusive
Behaviors. (See Pat for details)
3/ The 'Drive By' or 'Drive By Lie'- the crap flung in
passing (misses more often than not) from a post that
has no intention of stopping to defend the lie/allegation.
Usually contains innuendo, misrepresentation, lie.
You can tell a 'Drive By' from a clean jab by the failure
of the poster to stop/stick around to meet the challenge.
The 'Drive by' is usually a miniscule 'blipvert' bit of bollocks
that cannot stand scrutiny (Susans favorite) or may be lengthier
with oblique references and innuendo that will be supported by
no further clarification (Pat's favorite).
'Rank Magic'- involves the guts (or entirety) of what you have
put forward simply disappearing in the response.
Comment, point, issue, pertinent question are all simply cut and
vanish.in their place stands something entirely different (and
often incomprehensible). Rank Magic is often the precursor to
the 'Straw man'. (See Jerry for details).
'Gun in the Ring' or 'Knife at a Knuckle Fight'- is the most common,
reprehensible, repugnant, cowardly and vile of all Baha'i Apologist
tactics. It has long been documented and some have called it the
'Baha'i Technique'.
This is a misnomer...though it occurs frequently within the Baha'i
Community there is nothing 'Baha'i', civil or ethical about it.
'Gun in the Ring' represents the desperate measures employed by
Baja's Apologists seeking to slander, libel, lie regarding a fellow
Baha'is relationship to their Faith.
Short of theft or criminal assault it is the worst kind of offense one
Baha'i can commit against another. No..worse than these..it is
a morally and ethically repugnant act..an unwarranted and
unsubstantiated attack on another's core values and beliefs.
Bald faced lies accusing Baha'is of having "attacked the UHJ"
or "attacked the whole Faith" are stock in trade for the Baha'i
Apologists. Unable to conduct a clean argument they reach
for and deploy the dirtiest weapon they can manufacture.
(See Jerry, see Effy/Pith, see Dust, see Susan, see Nightshadow
, see Beliefnet, see TRB, see Baha'i cyberspace, see
Baha'i community....see the 'Wise Monkeys')
'Wise Monkeys'- See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.
they sit in lurkers gallery or participate on the boards but
'know nothing' of the evil that transpires around them.
This behavior- the turning away from and ignoring abusive
behaviors is the most common collective feature of the
'Baha'i Community Culture of Denial'. It is a perfect
reflection of what Community Builder M Scott Peck
describes as- "The hole in the mind"..the absence of
collective responsibility and awareness.
It is the very antithesis of 'spiritual'.
Rod.
From: "Rod" <kashani@tpg.com.au>
Subject: Re: CENSORSHIP - soc.religion.bahai - CENSORSHIP -
Date: Sunday, November 16, 2003 11:39 PM
smaneck@aol.com (Susan Maneck ) wrote in message
news:<20031116121945.05353.00000274@mb-m21.aol.com>...
> <sigh>
> It couldn't last.
You have laid such solid foundations it should last forever-
El Baquiano to Susan M-
"Either prove these allegations or apologize. This is the third time
that you have made such remarks. I have pointed them out two previous
times. And you have not responded to either of them."
" I am shocked to read your words. Where have I "challenged the way they
(House of Justice) is investing"? Where have I said that "the House
was exercising less than proper stewardship"?"
"But I strongly object to the way that you are twisting and perversing
my intentions and words."
"I will answer your question of 'why' but once again, you skirt around
the fact that you have attributed disgusting lies and ugly motivations
to me without any proof whatsoever."
"Since I prize the Baha'i Faith, words that insult it are vile. And
since I never uttered nothing resembling them, I say that you are
falsely attribute them to me. You continuously imply that my
motivations are suspect and nefarious and that I am attacking the
Faith and its institutions. Yet in the face of irreproachable proof to
the contrary, you continue to add to your mound of lies."
"You, Madam, are devoid of propriety, dignity and morality."