From: "Michael McKenny" <bn872@FreeNet.Carleton.CA>
Subject: Re: Enemies aid and abet
Date: Monday, September 08, 2003 8:17 AM
Hi, Starr.
You shared with us:
Starr* (starrjo99@yahoo.com) writes:
>
> Dear SolarGuard, Thank you for speaking to question informatively and
> meaningfully.
>
>> The Khomeini regime in Iran launched a persecution of Baha'is that
>> aroused very widespread sympathy for Baha'is worldwide.
>
> You are right, as I now recall that I took this as a sign that mass
> conversion in the world at large was on the verge of becoming a
> reality, at the time.
As I recall, it was the Universal House of Justice that made this point
at the time, asserting that the then persecution in Iran was what would
cause entry by troops, mass conversion and the Most Great Peace.
> The Peace letter
>> written during this time received great attention. The seeds of such entry
>> by troops, such entry of the masses into the Faith were planted and
>> watered with the blood of Iranian martyrs.
>
> As I recall I was prepared to match their sacrifice at the time,
> however, it became evident that entryism and colonization was changing
> the aims, writings, and praxis of the Faith.
>
It seems the guys in charge lost sight of the spiritual nature of what
was going on, and thought in very material terms. I recall a Counsellor,
likely David Smith, addressing us here and saying he'd returned from Haifa
and the UHJ wanted the Baha'is to provide the UHJ with entry by troops.
"Give us some muscle," was how he expressed it, unaware it seems that you
don't just get a whole mass of people streaming into a hypocritical
medieval thing violating its own essential spiritual principles on the
issue of women being fully equal to men and eligible, indeed required, to
serve at all levels as a mandatory prerequisite for world peace. The
Sacred Text describing the essential nature of equality can provide some
attention for Baha'i from the masses. The disregard by an all-male ruling
council of such Sacred Text can only earn Baha'i the scorn of any masses
that check it out. Baha'i's duty is to elevate any medievalists stuck in
the ruts of such patriarchal medievalism and bring them into the 21st
Century, not compete with them for domination of the male supremecist
vote.
>> However, when the first wave of the masses began to investigate Baha'i,
>> as the prophecy stood on the threshold of becoming history, these people
>> comprising that first wave encountered the intolerable hypocrisy of a
>> Faith asserting women were equal to men, but discriminating against women
>> by refusing to accept women at the top, on the Universal House of Justice.
>
> I whole-heartedly that this is the very integral central issue that
> lost the day for any progress. I am wondering if this hard stance
> against women's full emancipation as written about in the Peace
> Message has anything to do with the Faith's center being housed in the
> heart of Israel?
>
I see it as the shoe being on the other foot, or the other entity being
the cart. As I view it, since the Universal House of Justice has become so
unBaha'i, has sought to play political games of divide and rule, however
cultish, narrow-minded intolerant and petty the entity being ruled, the
material reflection of that absence of spirituality is inflicted on the
peoples of Israel and Palestine. Instead of an all-embracing, inclusive,
peace-creating mindset, we are confronted with the political machinations,
the intolerance, the injustice of a fundamentalist, colonizing and
militaristic Sharon government. Israel deserves better, but there's no
Baha'i spirit providing the example of better ways to live and no divine
influence from Haifa enhancing peace in Palestine and Israel, to say
nothing of the planet as a whole. This whole militaristic confrontation of
right wing America in support of extremist Israel and fundamentalist Islam
would be hard to imagine in a world where Baha'i had lived the life of the
equality of women and men and become a bridge of spiritual understanding
between West and East.
>> These people, this first wave of the masses, dropped Baha'i because of
>> Baha'i refusal to walk the talk on the issue of the equality of women and
>> men.
>> Had Baha'i been walking the talk on this issue, had Baha'i accepted
>> women are able to serve on the UHJ, then there would have been the
>> beginning of entry by troops, leading to mass conversion.
>
> You are absolutely spot on for the inherent Spirit of Peace and Wisdom
> in women would have led their families to embrace global equality
> supported by wise men such as yourself.
>
Actually, as I've documented elsewhere, and possibly in the archives of
this newsgroup, in this city the presentation of the Peace Message gained
the interest of many people of capacity and I personally observed them all
drop Baha'i like a hot potato, as soon as it became known that Baha'i
prevented women from rising to the top and being elected to the Universal
House of Justice.
>>I am not sure
>> that opposition elsewhere after that was inevitable (pre-empting such
>> opposition was one of the issues about which I wished to consult when I
>> entered Baha'i cyberspace c. 1995). However, opposition is generally the
>> response to success and growth. Since Baha'i was dropped like a hot potato
>> because of this hypocrisy on the issue of women, it declined. This decline
>> explains the absence of attacks. There is no need to oppose what is dying.
>
> It was a strategic move of the colonizers to safe keep the structure
> for their own agenda as Haifa knew that opposition would threaten the
> Haifa Centre and it's coffers, while they made alliances with
> Governments. Yes, now I see why the persecution did not continue -
> thanks for helping me understand that point. It looks like a good idea
> to be dying...while having agreements to rise again under global
> agreements when the time is ripe?
>
I was perhaps naively concerned with seeking to find ways and means to
communicate to religious fundamentalists (that is Islamic and Christian
clerics, etc) that the rise of Baha'i would not be contrary to the
interests of their religions, as Baha'i respected very much their Prophets
and the handiwork of their Prophets. I wondered at the mechanisms of
guaranteeing such leaders a decent living economically, as well as the
respect of Baha'is in a society where Baha'i had greatly augmented its
population. I was hoping that in a human condition of global maturity it
might be possible for people to avoid juvenile conflict and antagonisms,
the opposition of the old and new power elites. It remains a hope of mine
that humans can get along and understand their common human identity. The
one tremendous surprise I encountered was the existence of Baha'i
fundamentalists and the whole mess that emerged with the divisive and
intolerant, the unBaha'i, actions of those holding positions of
responsibility within Baha'i, those using traditional, juvenile, factional
and divisive politics to maintain their control of the entity they ruled
contrary to the Baha'i Sacred Texts. This remains a tragedy of historical
proportions, as 9-11 and all the aftermath confirm.
>>
>> > Are the
>> > disgruntled dissidant voices being used to this end? Will the bahai
>> > involvement in Kelly's case bring attention to the global aims of the
>> > hoped to be world religion?
>>
>> To the extent governments and peoples look at Baha'i, whatever it is
>> directs them to look, they discovery a cult of hypocrits with a view of
>> women that can be dismissed as that rooted in fundamentalist Islam, a
>> medieval worldview having no connection to global requirements today and
>> in the future.
>
> Yes, I even believe, AO loyalist send out people to show these
> faults...can they pander to the people and over come the annomolies
> and hypocrisy exposed to become more inclusive and just in days to
> come when the global community has settled down - and do the people
> want them to?
>
It took Christianity several centuries to achieve a domination within
the Roman Empire and the brand of intolerance that characterized
Christianity was not a wholly beneficial entity. It was not impossible for
Baha'i to have emerged with the ending of the Cold War and inform the
world situation then, as we advanced into the Lesser Peace. However, the
failure of Baha'i leadership to live the life trashed that historic
opportunity. Can it happen in another era? I suppose it's possible, but,
in my opinion, it will be a shadow of what it could have been. One good
thing is that as a consequence of the abuse of power by the men of the
Universal House of Justice, this precedent will allow humanity to treat
that institution with the scrutiny deserved, instead of according it the
kind of unquestioning obedience that could have become conditioned. Had
the UHJ lived the life in the late 20th Century and then went off the
rails several generations down the road, it conceivably could have caused
a much greater harm to those under its control, simply because so many
more could have been under its control. Now, that it's demonstrated how
susceptible it is to human failings, it will always be held to the same
level of scrutiny expected from any authority.
>> > All things work together for the good of god, so the bible tells us.
>> > So moles, double mole teams, dissidants, enemies, liberals,
>> > fundamentals, ex/unenrolled all play a part of what will be (if it
>> > bahai who knows). I say let the *good* times roll so long as the good
>> > of god is for equality, justice, and self knowledge.
>> >
>> > Starr*
>>
>> The division of Baha'is, the quite understandable rage and
>> disappointment and all the articulations of those romantic idealists so
>> abused by the men who retain power in Baha'i at the cost of the worth of
>> the religion can be seen in spiritual terms, as a rerun of the suppression
>> of the followers of the Holy Imams of Islam. The lessons of human history
>> are that spirituality is not always dominant and often the unworthy have
>> conquered the deserving.
>
> Another poster was pointing this out in another forum regarding the
> suppression of Sufi's in Iran - but in my mind, this is the time in
> this Cycle where the 'meek shall inherit the earth' if they STAND UP
> and take that rightful position as ONE VOICE in many lands.
>
I don't believe in inevitability, so the attempts by right wing
Americans and Islamic fundamentalists (operating in the vacuum created by
the failure of the men of the Universal House of Justice to live an
example of a better way) to impose a period of conflict and hostility upon
humanity are rejected by me. I believe now is the time for the ordinary
people of the planet and for all leaders deserving the name to advance the
interests of the harmony of the species. Let the machinations of the war
mongers be overcome. It says in the Koran that God is a better plotter
than men. Now, is surely an excellent opportunity for such a passage to be
verified through the triumph of human harmony and peace over the
self-serving confrontational hostility of the Crusaders and the Jihadis.
>>It is not inevitable and any day Baha'i can
>> emerge out of the Middle Ages, accept women on the UHJ and begin the
>> process of healing and uniting its own as a prelude to contributing
>> positively to the healing and uniting of humanity. I'm not holding my
>> breath, but it is possible.
>
> Without full participation of women at the top decision making then
> those who want to see bahaism fail have ensured it is and will forever
> fail. The Israeli-Palistine conflict must be resolved before any
> changes can be made in haifa and the colonizers neutralized. Many
> Eastern women now working at the UN and in politics are working to
> uphold thier Government policies or they are removed from
> representation - unfortunately. Of course there are some freelancers
> making progress in academia and elsewhere (a hope to the future).
>
>> In the interval, my best wishes to you all. However understandable your
>> disagreements, arguments, flamefests, these merely underline the nobility
>> of each of you so terribly maligned by the men
>
> I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you and to say that in my
> eight years of bahaicyberspace you, Michael, are the only person who
> has ever acknowledged and voiced understanding of the persecution I
> experienced in trying to enrol the Aborigine people into the faith and
> the great suffering I bore, - the others seemed all to have no heart
> towards my trials of betrayal and often villified my contribution. Of
> course the people that know the circumstances in life greatly
> sympathize. Once Errol gave some understanding and I don't forget that
> either. I have never fully understood the cyber dissidants
> unwillingness to understand or care and therefore wondered what
> agendas they are hoping for - although that is becoming more
> decipherable these days. Some times bahai is no more than a platform
> for many, though I do not wish to judge - and as I said 'all things
> can work towards the good'.
I guess it helped that I was taught in Canada the spiritual value of
our native people. I don't know if I have said here that when I was
turning into an adult, when I was twelve or thirteen years old, I went out
into the forest and was gone for three days. They had people searching for
me. Years later it occurred to me that without training and with no
knowledge of what was happening, I had tried to go on a vision quest. I
had responded to the spirit of the land, and conceivably there is some
native blood in me, but this I have not yet proved. Anyway, in Canada the
Baha'is for many years had greatly valued Native spirituality. When I read
your account of the Baha'i attacks against Australian Aboriginals, it was
so shocking for me. And, here, indeed, was another account and one from
halfway round the world from me of how the winds of night had blown out a
candle that could have illuminated this poor planet above its juvenile
wars. I salute you who suffered such living martyrdom as to see such
inflicted upon a people by those wearing the name of Baha'i. And, my hope
is that whatsoever the future unfolds for the Aborigines, as for each
people of this planet, it surpasses our highest hopes and exceeds are
imagination in every beneficial way. Human potential is very great and it
should not be overcome by the self-centred sowing seeds of disunity and
conflict.
>>whose duty it was to
>> exemplify their receptivity to the influence of your Prophet and His
>> unifying teachings still very much in tune with the needs of humanity.
>
> The poision pills inserted must be removed, and the Spiritual Essence
> extracted for it to ever be meaningful again - maybe that is what all
> this deconstruction is all about - but it needs to go to the next step
> of choosing the advanced level and then determining which part of the
> cake delivers.
>
The current system allows the UHJ at any time to live the life, walk
the talk and really bring together in harmony a serence, mature and
peaceful human civilization. The stimulating, energizing and creative
possibilities of such are beyond our imagination. Many other scenarios
exist and my hope remains that whatever does happen, whatever the details,
whatever specific events become actual history are luminous, benficial and
very worthy to a species that has seen too much tragedy for too many
generations.
Thrive, Michael
> To a future that works for everyone in an ever evolving civilization!
> Starr*
>
>> Thrice Three Blessings, Michael
--
"My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard."
(Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2)
From: "Michael McKenny" <bn872@FreeNet.Carleton.CA>
Subject: Re: Enemies aid and abet
Date: Monday, September 08, 2003 8:30 AM
Hi, Dermod.
"Dermod Ryder" (grim_reaper MOST@btinternet.com) writes:
> "Michael McKenny" <bn872@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
> news:bjf8ln$b63$1@freenet9.carleton.ca...
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> Good to see you back in the trenches here on good old TRB.
>
> Did you ever apologise to the DST for whatever it was you did that annoyed
> her? Or, like me, are you still enrolled on the list of honour that is her
> killfile?
>
I'm probably going to disappear, at least largely, again, as I only
post here at the expense of time spent elsewhere. However, we'll see what
happens. Conceivably, the UHJ will decide to get its act together and
start harmoniously guiding the Baha'is and providing an example for the
rest of humanity. I would be willing to cheer them on and spend a bit of
time consulting on that, though as I've already said, there's now going to
be a much healthier holding of them to basic standards, as with any other
authority.
By the way, it was a pleasure to spot here posts from someone named
Brid. She wrote in so Irish a way, it was a delight to read her. I'm still
reading very little of what is posted here. I am conscious that all the
divisive flaming is only an indication of the extent to which the Baha'i
authorities have fallen short of their duty to guide Baha'is on the High
Road of spirituality. A vast variety of opinions is mandated as essential
within Baha'i and there should never be any possibility of the UHJ and its
subordinate institutions being accused of nefarious operatives, as such is
contrary to really living the life.
I look forward to all that kind of thing being tossed in the trash bin
of history, as they get on with what they were set up to do -- guide the
Baha'is harmoniously as an example to a species that was supposed to be at
peace no later than 2001. To you and yours, the very best.
Peace, Michael
--
"My name's McKenny, Mike McKenny, Warrant Officer, Solar Guard."
(Tom Corbett #1 STAND BY FOR MARS p2)