The Baha'i Faith & Religious Freedom of Conscience

From: "diamondsouled" <rowe@northwestel.net>
Subject: Re: Susan Maneck continues breaching sacred boundaries.
Date: Saturday, December 16, 2006 5:08 PM

Howdy Kent,

That's what we do during holidays Kent and those other times when we
are visiting with family; we avoid those controversial topics such as
politics and religion. For the sake of family unity.

Perhaps Baha'u'llah, Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi should have done
the same thing, for the sake of family unity. This is where true unity
begins after all.

As for this hurly burly forum, TRB, if there is a place for
controversial Baha'i topics this is it.

Not sure if you know about it yet but there is a new forum on Yahoo
Groups called Baha'i Community:

https://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bahai_Community/

So far it seems to be following in SRB's footsteps with any topics
that are difficult being censored.

Still, if you are looking for fellowship and discussion with
like-minded people you would do better to do it there than here on TRB.


I may have cross the line a bit when I said that the Baha'i faith is
one of the darkest cults in the world today; but then when I read words
such as the following the darkness positively, or more correctly
negatively, oozes out of them:

The need to protect the Faith from the attacks of its enemies may not
be generally appreciated by the friends, particularly in places where
attacks have been infrequent. However, it is certain that such
opposition will increase, become concerted, and eventually universal.
The writings clearly foreshadow not only an intensification of the
machinations of internal enemies, but a rise in the hostility and
opposition of its external enemies, whether religious or secular, as
the Cause pursues its onward march towards ultimate victory. Therefore,
in the light of the warnings of the Guardian, the Auxiliary Boards for
Protection should keep "constantly" a "watchful eye" on those "who are
known to be enemies, or to have been put out of the Faith", discreetly
investigate their activities, alert intelligently the friends to the
opposition inevitably to come, explain how each crisis in God's Faith
has always proved to be a blessing in disguise, and prepare them for
the "dire contest which is destined to range the Army of Light against
the forces of darkness".

(The Universal House of Justice, The Institution of the Counsellors,
p. 16)

Then again the UHJ can come up with some very insightful words, words
such as the following:

More detrimental still to religious understanding has been theological
presumption. A persistent feature of religion's sectarian past has been
the dominant role played by clergy. In the absence of scriptural texts
that established unarguable institutional authority, clerical elites
succeeded in arrogating to themselves exclusive control over
interpretation of the Divine intent. However diverse the motives, the
tragic effects have been to impede the current of inspiration,
discourage independent intellectual activity, focus attention on the
minutiae of rituals and too often engender hatred and prejudice towards
those following a different sectarian path from that of self-appointed
spiritual leaders. While nothing could prevent the creative power of
Divine intervention from continuing its work of progressively raising
consciousness, the scope of what could be achieved, in any age, became
increasingly limited by such artificially contrived obstacles.

(Commissioned by The Universal House of Justice, One Common Faith)

Too bad they're too dense too see how these words apply perfectly to
themselves and the Hands: "clerical elites", who: "in the absence of
scriptural texts that established unarguable institutional authority",
arrogate :" to themselves exclusive control over interpretation of the
Divine intent."

The fact that each and every replacement to the Universal House of
Justice for the past 20 years has come from appointees of the UHJ to
the ITC qualifies the members of the UHJ as those very :
"self-appointed spiritual leaders", that they themselves refer to it
their insightful statement.

To bad that they are too blinded by the myth of their own
infallibility that they can not see the wisdom in their own words, nor
how those words apply directly to themselves and in turn to the Hands.

Not too surprisingly the Baha'i faith is firm in the grip of those:
"effects", which: "have been to impede the current of inspiration,
discourage independent intellectual activity, focus attention on the
minutiae of rituals and too often engender hatred and prejudice towards
those following a different sectarian path from that of self-appointed
spiritual leaders."

How ironic, how comic, how true, how sad!

Yours


Larry Rowe
 

From: "diamondsouled" <rowe@northwestel.net>
Subject: Re: Susan Maneck continues breaching sacred boundaries.
Date: Saturday, December 09, 2006 9:35 PM

In any case, the Will and Testament authorizes the House of Justice to
> decide all "matters that are not expressly recorded in the Book.
> Whatsoever they decide has the same effect as the Text itself." Since
> this is something not clearly revealed in the text it is within the
> House's authority to decide what to do.

The problem here Susan is that to decide often requires that
interpretations be made and the Universal House of Justice has no more
authority to make interpretations than any individual Baha'i, thems the
facts and they are scripturally based. If there were a Guardian as the
permanent head of the Universal House of Justice as is stipulated in
Abdul-Baha's W&T any decisions which required interpretation would of
course be left up to that living hereditary Guardian.

The domain of interpretation is out of bounds for the Universal House
of Justice, period. Any mis-use of semantic tools such as the words
elucidation etc. are simply ways of attempting to get around the
reality that there can be no authoritative interpretations made by any
present Baha'i institutions, even if they are gurulike referred to by
some Baha'is as "the beloved Universal House of Justice"

It is my opinion the Hands proceeded in the only way they thought was
workable but that they should have actually gone to the community of
Baha' Itself at that time to ask the opinion of the entire community on
what should be done. They were thinking as "clerical elites" typically
think: disregard the opinions of the masses.

As it stands they behaved exactly as the Universal House of Justice
stated such "clerical elites", "in arrogating to themselves exclusive
control over interpretation of the Divine intent.","In the absence of
scriptural texts that established unarguable institutional authority,"
*. Ruhiyyih Khanum openly admitted: "How to assume the reins of
authority, with no document to support us, other than the general
theological statements about the Hands?"

(Custodians, Ministry of the Custodians, p. 9)

It is little wonder to me that the Baha'i faith is presently suffering
from full blown: "tragic effects have been to impede the current of
inspiration, discourage independent intellectual activity, focus
attention on the minutiae of rituals and too often engender hatred and
prejudice towards those following a different sectarian path from that
of self-appointed spiritual leaders."

When such fine individuals as Sen McGlinn are shown the door, are
erased from Baha'i membership rolls as though they never existed, it is
a clear indication that the Baha'i Faith is in deep denial and in deep
dysfunction. So deep that Baha'i membership numbers are so grossly
exaggerated, manipulated, and so far from reality that only the
delusional or uninformed would believe them to be true.

The Baha'i Faith, as an organization, is so far from reality that the
"self appointed" members of the Universal House of Justice cannot even
see how their own words apply perfectly to themselves, as well as to
the Hands:

*More detrimental still to religious understanding has been theological
presumption. A persistent feature of religion's sectarian past has been
the dominant role played by clergy. In the absence of scriptural texts
that established unarguable institutional authority, clerical elites
succeeded in arrogating to themselves exclusive control over
interpretation of the Divine intent. However diverse the motives, the
tragic effects have been to impede the current of inspiration,
discourage independent intellectual activity, focus attention on the
minutiae of rituals and too often engender hatred and prejudice towards
those following a different sectarian path from that of self-appointed
spiritual leaders. While nothing could prevent the creative power of
Divine intervention from continuing its work of progressively raising
consciousness, the scope of what could be achieved, in any age, became
increasingly limited by such artificially contrived obstacles.

(Commissioned by The Universal House of Justice, One Common Faith)

Yours

Larry Rowe

From: "HBF Founder" <american_bahai@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Why Joel B. Marangella's Claim to be the Guardian is False
Date: Saturday, November 25, 2006 10:18 PM

Which claims are you referring to, that I've made about myself Larry?

Madison

diamondsouled wrote:

Howdy Richard,

When I read Brents's claims, then Joel's, then Mason's, then the Hand's
and the UHJ's, then Shoghi's, then Abdul-Baha's, the Baha'u'llah's I
see a pattern. Of pattern of claims. A pattern of claims of special
divinty, a pattern that is unsubstanciated through any evidence
whatsoever of special divinity, special spirituality.

What I see is a dysfunctional family passing their dysfunction down to
others who continue to engage in similar dysfuncation.

If humanity is indeed one where does that oneness begin? In the family.
That the 'holy' family were such abject failures when it came to
familial unity is proof that there is nothing especially divine going
on amongst the members of the 'holy' family.

The whole story is rife with the same sort of lineage intrieges that
have gone on in other similar cults in the past such as the Radha Samja
Satsanga Beas.

Whenever any human being claims special spiritual station it inevitably
and exhorably sets up such situations of such lineal intriege.

Sure the 'holy' family gave voice to some very fine sentiments but did
they live by those sentiments even amongst their own family members,
no.

It is easy to give voice to such sentiments, such sentiments are so
much hot air until the are put into practice though. Where does a
person begin to put such sentiments into practice, in ones own family.

Not even Shoghi parents were spared the dysfunction, in the end his
entire family had fallen victim to Shoghi's dysfunction, the
dysfunction he had inherited, and he was left all alone. How sad.

Yours

Larry Rowe




From: "diamondsouled" <rowe@northwestel.net>
Subject: Re: Susan Maneck continues breaching sacred boundaries.
Date: Thursday, December 07, 2006 5:21 PM

Howdy Ross,

I am in complete agreement Ross that there is no body or individual in
the Baha'i faith with the authority to declare someone to be a covenant
breaker. The fact is there has been no living hereditary Guardian since
Shoghi's death in 1957.

The whole issue of declaring individuals to be covenant breakers is
that it clearly contradicts Baha'u'llah's abolition and nullification
of the practice of shunning:

"Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath
caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the
revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished."

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 95)

It as well contradicts Abdul-Baha's teaching that we should see no
one as an enemy, that we should draw no lines between ourselves and
others:

"Let them see no one as their enemy, or as wishing them ill, but think
of all humankind as their friends; regarding the alien as an intimate,
the stranger as a companion, staying free of prejudice, drawing no
lines."

(Abdul-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdul-Baha, p. 1)

That both Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha failed to put these teachings
into practice in their own lives is one of the major reasons that the
Baha'i faith has been such an abject failure in the promotion of the
oneness of humanity.

When exceptions are made to the oneness of humanity, it is no longer
true oneness but division in the guise of a compromised oneness. Such
division, has been practiced by religionists since the beginning of
organized religion.

That which is truly spiritually diseased and contagious is the belief
that other human beings are worthy of shunning regardless of the
character and integrity of that person. Such spiritual contagion
continues to plague Jews, Muslims, Christians as well as Baha'is and
all for what? For religious pride and ignorance.

When Baha'u'llah removed the former religious practice of dividing
humanity "the pure tree" from the "evil tree" he should have had the
integrity to live by this teaching in his own life. That both
Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi continued to follow in Baha'u'llahs
footsteps and continued to divide humanity is a measure of the
dysfunction of such erroneous religious beliefs which justify such of
dividing humanity.

The Universal House of Justice follows in the footsteps of their
predecessors as well and divides decent, intelligent, people of
integrity from their exclusivity for the same erroneous excuses. The
oneness of humanity is incompatible with religious beliefs and
practices that make excuses for dividing humanity.

Until organized religion leaves such counterproductive, obsolete and
antiquated religious beliefs and practices behind them humanity would
be far better off without such organized religions, including the
Baha'i faith.

Yours

Larry Rowe

-------------

 

From: "diamondsouled" <rowe@northwestel.net>
Subject: The Baha'i Covenent used as a weapon
Date: Friday, September 29, 2006 2:40 PM

Hello all,

I don't think you'll find anyone here arguing that the universal
principles that are in Baha'i teachings are not laudable.

What I have personally found though, this in the 35 years I was a
Baha'i, is that there is a clear disconnect between those laudable
universal principles and Baha'i religious practices.

For instance the Baha'i religious practice of shunning.

Although Baha'u'llah supposedly abolished and nullified the practice
of shunning:

Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath
caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the
revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished.

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 95)

... the leaders of the Baha'i faith, Baha'u'llah included, advocated
shunning. Shoghi Effendi was such an avid shunner that not one of his
own family members was spared, not even his own parents! Such
estrangment from one's entire family is a sign of spiritual and social
dysfunction, not of Shoghi's family but of Shoghi himself.

To declare someone to be a Covenant Breaker because they refuse to
quit a job, because they take a trip to America without first getting
your OK, because they arrange a marriage you don't approve of, because
they refuse to disassociate from their family members who were unjustly
declared to be Covenant breakers for reasons which have nothing
whatsoever to do with spirituality, is evidence of power tripping not
wise or spiritual leadership. It's really no wonder Shoghi was
abandoned by his entire family!

The Baha'i Covenant has been turned into a bludgeon, a weapon used to
threaten and to coerce.

Although the universal house of justice were mummers of such words as
these in 2005:

Above all, we expressed our conviction that the time has come when
religious leadership must face honestly and without further evasion the
implications of the truth that God is one and that, beyond all
diversity of cultural expression and human interpretation, religion is
likewise one.

(Commissioned by The Universal House of Justice, One Common Faith)

In 2006 they rubbed out, erased, one of their fellow coreligionists,
Baha'i scholar Sen McGlinn, simply for expressing his "human
interpretation".

Such unjust actions of the universal house of justice are part of a
pattern that goes back to the beginng of the Baha'i faith. A religion
which purports to believe in the oneness of humanity but which through
it's religious practices shows that this supposed belief is simply the
mouthing of words, without substance.

Yours

Larry Rowe

From: "diamondsouled" <rowe@northwestel.net>
Subject: Blacklisting at SRB - the total lack of self critique in the Baha'i faith
Date: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 4:16 PM

Hello all,

It appears that I have once again been blacklisted at SRB although it
is part of their officially stated policy that such black listing does
not occur.

None of my several last posts have been allowed through even though
they all clearly pertained to the topic of the thread and the Baha'i
faith itself.

So much for the progressiveness and openmindedness of the Baha'i
faith.

Critique is not allowed in the Baha'i faith under the false pretense
that it will be disunifying when in fact the true reason for not
allowing scholary critique is that no Baha'i interpretations that are
diverse from the personal Baha'i doctrines of a select few prominent
members of Baha'i institutions are allowed or tolerated.

Pope Benedict is more open minded than Baha'is or Baha'i institutions
lol!



 

Re: "Discord and divergence among the Baha'is"


From: diamondsouled - view profile
Date: Thurs, Nov 16 2006 7:26 pm
Email: "diamondsouled" <r...@northwestel.net>
Groups: talk.religion.bahai



" Sometimes you can be a real pain in the ass. Now I have to sit and
read and read and read and OH my goodness!! Think."

Lol! My dear wife Heather says the same thing sometimes.

Like a lot of guys of my generation I sometimes bottle things up and
when they eventually perculate to the surface it's not always pretty.
Otherwise I'm a very gentle and soft hearted person, a friend of cats
and dogs, a bit of a sentimentalist actually.

I have profound respect for every individuals inherent right to
interpret their own spritual experiences in the manner that they
choose. I respect Baha'u'llah, Mirza Husayn Ali's, inherent right to
have interpreted his spiritual experiences in the manner that he did. I
well recognize the fact that, in his shoes, I may have come to the
exact same conclusions. It is what those interpretations do to others
that concerns me more.

Conformity to the religious interpretations of others has been one of
humanities greatest banes. Ironically though it has also fostered some
of humanities greatest thinkers. It is a real mixed bag for sure.

Humanity needs to do away with the negative fallout of the
consequences of conformity to religious interpretation. Like I said, a
lot of bad shit has gone down in the name of the god of Abraham; as a
kind we need to grow out of and get through this negative propensity.

What is needed is not conformity to and uniformity with certain
specific ideologies and their attendant world views, what is needed is
conformity with universal ethical principles such as nonviolence, the
use of peaceful means to work out our differences, principles which
will actually foster the oneness of humanity. This of course stands as
true for political ideologies as it does for religious or philosophical
ideologies.

In order for humanity to progress, as we all desire to see, we have to
put aside our differences. We have to loosen the hold that idelogies,
whether they are religious or political, have over us and which give us
the excuse to go at each others throats.

Although I have nothing but praise for the spirit of the principle
teachings of the Baha'i faith such as the oneness of humanity, when
that spirit is attempted to be channeled through an organization it
inevitably leads to overzealousness. Once people become overzealous,
spirit goes out the window, protection of the organzation becomes the
end all and be all; even at the sacrifice of all those noble
principles.

When Abdul-Baha said the following he got it partly right:

"This movement eludes organization -- it is the realization of a new
spirit. The foundation of that spirit is the love of God; and its
method, the love and service of mankind. Many who have never heard of
this revelation teach its laws and spiritual truths. These people are
performing what BAHA'O'LLAH hath commanded though they never heard of
him. The power of BAHA'O'LLAH'S words is compelling -- therefore, you
must know and love them. For instance, in the spring season trees burst
forth into verdure, though they are not conscious of the sunshine, of
the falling rain or the gentle breeze -- nevertheless, the power of
nature urges them on to yield forth their fruits."

(Abdul-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 15)

The thing is that he saw the spirit as coming through the persona of
his father when in reality that spirit very much transcended the
persona of his father.

The spirit transcends the personas of every human being, transcends
every interpretation of personal human spiritual experience. The spirit
lays in those noble concepts such as the oneness of humanity and when
humanity has ever directly associated such noble principles with the
person or persona of an individual it has, without exception, had
negative consequences.

The spirit truly lays in the concepts themselves and more importantly
in the putting into practice of those concepts in ones own life.

We can all get better at putting those concepts into practice.

Yours

From: "diamondsouled" <rowe@northwestel.net>
Subject: Re: Blacklisting at SRB - the total lack of self critique in the Baha'i faith
Date: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:14 PM

Howdy Kent,

Is being regressive bad? You decide Kent.

Mmmm. Logic. Baha'is are not the ones to talk about logic.

I could site the many instances where there are clear contradictions
between Baha'i teachings and religious practices Kent, but you're
already aware of those many contradictions, or at least you should be.

If you can, with intellectual integrity, reconcile those
contradictions Kent fine.

Baha'is are not interested in reason or logic, that is why Baha'is as
well as their administrative order fear scholarly critique, why such
scholarly critique is not allowed and why those who publish any
scholarly materials which do not conform to the narrow doctrinal purity
allowed by the Baha'i thought police end up threatened, bullied, and or
receiveing a letter such as the following from their NSA's: because of
opinions which you have expressed it is apparent that you no longer
meet the requirements of membership in the Baha'i faith and will be
removed from the Baha'i membership rolls". Without even the courage or
integrity to mention just what specific opinion is the offending one.

Some appreciation of religious diversity, lol!

Then they have the nerve to mouth words such as the following:

Above all, we expressed our conviction that the time has come when
religious leadership must face honestly and without further evasion the
implications of the truth that God is one and that, beyond all
diversity of cultural expression and human interpretation, religion is
likewise one.

(Commissioned by The Universal House of Justice, One Common Faith)

Baha'is need to ask themselves: "why is there this huge disconnect
between what we say and what we do?" Of course such open, honest,
logical and rational examination of this disconnect requires a degree
of intellectual integrity that Baha'is as well as their administrative
order have not shown they are willing to engage in.

Yours

Larry Rowe

------

 

From: "Heather Carr-Rowe" <rowe@northwestel.net>
Subject: Re: Healthier discussions
Date: Saturday, April 08, 2006 8:12 AM

Howdy Michael,

Religion at its best is about self realization but at its worse it is about
mere differences in non essential 'artistic' opinions.

Sometimes we have to humble ourselves, sometimes we even have to humble our
opinions of others.

All the blood and fury that religion has visited on humanity Michael has
been because people ceased to be humble.

Not only Babis, Bayanis such as Azal and Siyyid Muhammad, but Baha'is, such
as Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha'.

Now for some Baha'is even mentioning the names of these people together in
the same breath is a sacrilege, and we all know what such religious zealotry
can lead to. It can lead to estrangement and yes it can lead to murder.

It was Bayanis that were murdered in Akka by Baha'is Michael not Baha'is
that were murdered by Bayanis, and all for what, for a lack of reasoning,
because of religious zealotry.

Revelation is a form of art and not all works are equal. Baha'u'llah gave
voice to words of beauty and majesty but he also gave voice to words which
were diametrically opposed to those words of beauty and majesty. Words which
incited certain of his own followers to kill those 3 ( or 7 according to
Edward Browne) Bayanis and why? Because their religion was different from
their's, because their religion was different than Baha'u'llah's.

Just as artistic choice is personal and subjective, so too is religious
choice.

Baha'u'llah made the error that all founders and religionists before him
have made, he wrote his personal and subjective choices in stone and
expected all to follow. It was Azal's and Siyyid Muhammad's personal and
subjective choice to choose to differ.

Were Siyyid Muhammad and those 6 other Bayanis deserving of murder because
of the personal and interpretational spiritual and religious choice they had
made? Of course not!

This is where religion falters Michael, when individuals absolutize their
own world views or the world views of others.

When we absolutize the words of any man, even a man such as Baha'u'llah we
are taking what is essentially art and absolutizing it as being free of
defect. To do this with any other form of art would be ridiculous, what I've
been attempting to say is that it is just as ridiculous to do this when we
are considering the words of the founders of religion, when we are
concidering words which religionists take to be the words of God Himslef.

Why is there such a streak of poison in the Baha'i Faith Michael, this
contagion of poisonous covenant breaker mentality that has seeped into its
very being? Why are fine and beautiful individuals such as Alison Marshall,
such as Sen McGlinn, such as yourself, tainted by this poisoning in the
Baha'i Faith; where does such poisoning have it's origin?

It has it's origin in our humanity and in they way that we deal with others
who choose to see things differently than ourselves. We let our emotions get
the best of us and then the worst of us comes out, hatred.

The poison that contaminates the Baha'i Faith has it's origin in the way
that Baha'u'llah treated those Babis (and yes those Babis were members of an
independent religion) that chose to disagree with his personal religious
interpretation. This poisoning continued into the life of Abdul-Baha' and
the way that he treated his half brother Muhammad and his family, kids
included! It continued into Shoghi Effendi's life as well and not even
Shoghi's own parents were spared this poisoning. This poisoning continues to
this day to have it's effect in the Baha'i faith and this poison is now
administered by those " self appointed religious leaders" that Baha'is call
the members of the U.H.J.. It has been administered to Alison and to Sen and
to you Michael and to me personally ( except I refused it ) and all for
what?

Because the poisoners have forgotten something, they have forgotten to be
humble and to accept that the opinions and beliefs of others need to be
treated with humility and forbearance. Until humanity finds this humility
and forbearance religion will continue to be more of a bane in this world
than it is a balm.

This lack of humility and forbearance can be traced right back to the
beginning of the Baha'i Faith Michael. No man is a spiritual pariah for
making individual religious and subjective interpretational spiritual
choices that differ from those of others. Baha'u'llah did a boo boo, a bid
boo boo, he let his ego allow him to begin to hate his own brother, and all
over a difference in religious interpretation. So much for self realization!

Azal was chosen by the Bab himself to be the inheritor of the Bayani faith
the Bab had began, when Baha'u'llah chose to see things differently the war
was on. It is my opinion that both sides could have handled it differently,
but they didn't and now we are left with the effects of that religious war
even until this day. Another religion, just as all other religions,
hopelessly fragmenting into ever smaller bits.

Why? Because revelation is art Michael, a high art perhaps but an art none
the less; and artistic appreciation has always been subjective.

It is time for religionists to quit killing one another and to quit
poisoning one another with words simply because of differences in their
artistic appreciation.

Until that happens religion will continue to be just as Abdul-Baha said:
"Thus religion which was destined to become the cause of friendship has
become the cause of enmity. Religion, which was meant to be sweet honey, is
changed into bitter poison. Religion, the function of which was to illumine
humanity, has become the factor of obscuration and gloom. Religion, which
was to confer the consciousness of everlasting life, has become the fiendish
instrument of death. As long as these superstitions are in the hands and
these nets of dissimulation and hypocrisy in the fingers, religion will be
the most harmful agency on this planet. These superannuated traditions,
which are inherited unto the present day, must be abandoned, and thus free
from past superstitions we must investigate the original intention. The
basis on which they have fabricated the superstructures will be seen to be
one, and that one, absolute reality; and as reality is indivisible, complete
unity and amity will be instituted and the true religion of God will become
unveiled in all its beauty and sublimity in the assemblage of the world."

(Abdul-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 161)

I am an investigator of Abdul-Baha's "original intention", from 1960 when
I was seven years old until today. I will always be such an investigator.
Such human artistic enterprises always are unending.

This investigation has led me to conclude that all that Abdul-Baha' saw
about the "superannuated traditions" of his day stands as just as true for
those "superannuated traditions" today. Except for one thing, the Baha'i
Faith is smack dab right in the middle of those "superannuated traditions",
and all for what?

For differences in artistic appreciation.

" Crack the Ark of superficiality "

Yours Larry Rowe

From: "Heather Carr-Rowe" <rowe@northwestel.net>
Subject: Re: Healthier discussions
Date: Sunday, April 09, 2006 2:09 PM

Howdy Kent,

We have a lot in common Kent. My mother became a Baha'i when I was seven
years old as well.

Indoctrination has its degrees. It can go from the extreme of the
flirty-friendly love bombing of cults such as The Church of Love or Moon's
Reunification Church, to the target and befriend people of Chinese ancestry
and then use that 'friendship' along with duplicity and disimmulation to
indocrinate those new Chinese 'friends' into signing indocrination cards to
the Baha'i Faith. I had a personal experience of this in Burnaby B.C. Kent
and I fled that spiritually sick meeting without even saying goodbye. I felt
like I'd wandered into a Krisna Consciousness or a Scientology meeting by
mistake! I got a huge dropping feeling in the pit of my stomach when these
glaze eyed coreligionists started councilling the people at that meeting to
use duplicity and dissimulation to convert the target group of phoney new
Chinese friends into the Baha'i cult, "but be careful at first to only say
Baha'u'llah was only a social reformer" they councilled. Ewwww. It almost
made me gag and throw up.

Some cult methodologies are more insideous than others but all have the
same goal, to change your world view to their world view.

Now there are some good aspects of the Baha'i world view, I can hardly deny
that having had 46 years experience being around Baha'is, but there is a
darker underbelly that is hidden from sight to prospective converts. There
is the fact that the two-winged aspect of Baha'i teacings has its definite
glass ceiling and that even the topic has been made verbotten by the 9 men
above that glass ceiling. There is the rampant Baha'i triumphalism that has
been insinuating itself into the faith that is growing by leaps and bounds
while entry by troops fades ever more into a delusional fantasy; and it all
becomes quite obvious where such self focused triumphalism has its source
when objectively reading the amiable platitudes and outright pontifications
that come down from the 'holy' mount, such as The Message to Humanity of a
few years ago.

Then there is the sanctimonious patting of oneself on the back for the
great service to humanity of spending a quarter of a billion dollars on the
Baha'i prestige terrace project. My mother proudly showed off an ad in a
local newpaper which bragged about how great the Baha'i faith was for
spending these hundreds of millions of dollars building a hanging garden to
rival that of ancient Babylon, in a semi arid place for god's sake where
many Palestinian people go without a proper sourse of fresh drinking water!
All I felt Kent was a deep sense of embarrassment for Baha'is and for the
Baha'i faith that this unneccesary and self glorifing prestige project was
the best thing that Baha'is could come up with as a 'service' to humanity. I
was polite to my mom of course but I couldn't help but notice the glazed
eyed look of pride in her eyes as she proudly showed me those fresh
evidences of Baha'i cultdom.

This is what cults do Kent, they blind people. They blind people to
reality. To such a reality that a hanging garden to rival that of ancient
Babylon is needed in Israel just as much as the 8 meter concrete wall around
Nazereth is needed.

What is needed is a viable infrastructire for Palestinians and $250,000,000
dollars could have gone a long way in helping to develop such a reality but
Baha'is are such fixated navel gazers they don't get it. They would rather
spend tens of thousands of dollars maintaining a useless prestige garden and
tens of thousands of gallons of water on keeping it all green than to offer
a helping hand to Palestinians who are in dire need of help. These are all
halmarks of a cult Kent, whether you like the reality or can accept the
reality doesn't change that reality.

The way that a notice to the entire Canadian Baha'i community was sent
warning about John Carre, and his calling his spirituality as person into
question by smearing him as one of those 'spiritually corrosive' covenant
breakers, these are all hallmarks of a cult Kent. It wouldn't be quite so
bad if they didn't include John's children and his grand children under the
'spiritually corresive' sick Baha'i cult mentality label; but they do Kent
and they're too damn blind to see the psychological unwellness that is
represented in this sort of cult mentality.

I personally keep up a correspondance with John and he is a fine man who
has love for all of humanity foremost in his mind. I don't agree with many
of his religious views but to me that is very much beside the point. I
appreciate him and love him for the wonderful human being that he is and
that Kent is very much the point. The whole point and purpose of
spirituality.

I get a Baha'i Canada sent to my home which slurs this fine man and what am
I to think? Oh what a wonderful community of spiritually minded people to
send me such a warning? Get real. The Baha'i faith is a full blown cult and
though there are fine people within it there are many glazed eyed cultists
as well who would gladly repeat the Akka throat slitting of the enemies of
their faith if they thought they could get away with it.

I have the hands on, mind on, experiences Kent; this is no hobby or pastime
for me. I'm warning all who will listen: " Stay away from the cult of the
Baha'i Faith, for your own spiritual wellness !".

As for any supposedly hurtful things I said about Baha'u'llah they were
only seemingly hurtful because they were true, sometimes the truth hurts.
Baha'u'llah was full of himself, his writings are ripe and repleat with self
pontifications and the contrary bemoanings of 'this wronged one'. Give me a
break! He lived out his life like a king at Bahji all the while bemoaning
the fact that the world wasn't knocking down his door to bend its knee to
him.

Still those universal teachings of the oneness of humanity and the
reconciliation of religion are great and wonderful concepts, in fact they
stand on their own, they always have. It's too bad for Baha'u'llah,
Abdul-Baha', and Shoghi Effendi, but especially for Azal, Abdul-Baha's
brother Muhammad and Shoghi's entire family that Baha'u'llah, Abdul-Baha'
and Shoghi couldn't practice what they preached, that they couldn't live by
those most worthy of universal principles, not even within their own
families for God's sake!

Yours Larry

 

ÿþF r o m : " d i a m o n d s o u l e d " < r o w e @ n o r t h w e s t e l . n e t >
S u b j e c t : R e : S u s a n M a n e c k c o n t i n u e s b r e a c h i n g s a c r e d b o u n d a r i e s .
D a t e : M o n d a y , D e c e m b e r 1 1 , 2 0 0 6 1 : 1 4 P M


D e a r S u s a n ,

" t h e y * a r e * a u t h o r i z e d t o m a k e j u r i s p r u d e n t i a l d e d u c t i o n s i n m a t t e r s
o f B a h a ' i l a w "

T h e y a r e o n l y a u t h o r i z e d t h e m a k e j u r i s p r u d e n t i a l d e d u c t i o n s i n
m a t t e r s o f B a h a ' i l a w t h a t h a v e n o t p r e v i o u s l y b e e n d e d u c e d . T o
r e d e d u c e w o u l d r e q u i r e r e i n t e r p r e t a t i o n o f s c r i p t u r e , w h i c h i s c l e a r l y
o u t o f b o u n d s o f t h e U H J ' s a u t h o r i t y .

W e h a v e a l r e a d y s e e n t h e U n i v e r s a l H o u s e o f J u s t i c e o v e r s t e p i t ' s
a u t h o r i t y i n a l l o w i n g H i n d u ' s t o b e r e g i s t e r e d a s B a h a ' i i n I n d i a w h i s t
i g n o r i n g S h o g h i E f f e n d i ' s l i s t o f r e q u i r e m e n t s f o r B a h a ' i m e m b e r s h i p .
A l l t h e y h a v e t o d o i s s t a t e i s t h a t t h e y b e l i e v e B a h a ' u ' l l a h w a s a n
A v a t a r a m o n g t h e m a n y o f o t h e r a v a t a r s b e l i e v e d i n i n I n d i a , T h e t h i n g
i s H i n d u ' s a l s o b e l i e v e B u d d h a w a s a n a v a t a r b u t t h i s d o e s n ' t m a k e t h e m
B u d d h i s t s . I r o n i c a l l y t h i s s a m e l i s t o f S h o g h i ' s h a s b e e n u s e d h e r e i n
t h e W e s t a s a n e x c u s e t o d i s e n f r a n c h i s e t h o s e B a h a ' i s w h o h a v e t h e
c o u r a g e t o s p e a k c o n s c i e n t i o u s l y .

T h e m o t i v e f o r s u c h g r o s s m a n i p u l a t i o n i n t h e m e m b e r s h i p r o l l s i s t o
h i d e t h e f a c t t h a t t h e B a h a ' i f a i t h h a s n o t b e e n g r o w i n g h e r e i n t h e
W e s t . I n f a c t i f a l l t h o s e w h o h a v e s i g n e d d e c l a r a t i o n c a r d s b u t h a v e
b e e n a d d r e s s u n k n o w n f o r s e v e r a l y e a r s w e r e r e m o v e d f r o m t h e m e m b e r s h i p
r o l e s t h e t r u e n u m b e r o f B a h a ' i i n C a n a d a a n d t h e U S w o u l d l i k e l y b e a
h a l f o r e v e n a s l i t t l e a s a q u a r t e r o f w h a t i s c l a i m e d . T h e m o t i v e f o r
t h e B a h a ' i a d m i n i s t r a t i o n t o f a l s e l y i n f l a t e a c t u a l B a h a ' i m e m b e r s h i p
n u m b e r s i s o b v i o u s , t h e y w a n t t o h i d e t h e f a c t o f t h e i r a b j e c t f a i l u r e
f r o m t h e B a h a ' i c o m m u n i t y , t h e y w a n t t o h i d e t h e f a c t t h a t t h e
f u n d a m e n t a l i s t t r e n d t h a t h a s o v e r t a k e n t h e B a h a ' i f a i t h i n t h e l a s t 4 0
y e a r s i s f o r c i n g m o r e p e o p l e t o l e a v e t h e f a i t h t h a n i n f l u e n c i n g p e o p l e
t o j o i n .

T h e u s e o f t e r m s s u c h a s " e l u d i c a t i o n s " i s a t r a n s p a r e n t a t t e m p t t o
w e a s e l a r o u n d t h e r e a l i t y t h a t i n t e r p r e t a t i o n a l l y t h e B a h a ' i f a i t h i s
s t u c k i n 1 9 5 7 f o r t h e n e x t 8 5 0 y e a r s !

I f e e l n o d i s r e s p e c t f o r S h o g h i t h e m a n S u s a n , a l l I t r u l y f e e l f o r
h i m i s p i t y . P i t y t h a t h e g o t c a u g h t u p i n t h e s a m e c o v e n a n t b r e a k e r
f a n a t i c i s m o f h i s G r a n d f a t h e r a n d G r e a t G r a n d f a t h e r . A f a n a t i c i s m t h a t
t o t a l l y n e g a t e s a n y p o s i t i v e i n f l u e n c e w h i c h t h e B a h a ' i f a i t h c o u l d
p o t e n t i a l l y h a v e a s a f o r c e f o r b r i n g i n g t h e p e o p l e o f t h e w o r l d
t o g e t h e r .

H y p o c r i t e s a r e r a r e l y t a k e n s e r i o u s l y . W h e n y o u h a v e t h e w o r d s s h u n n o
m a n , h a v e n o e n e m y , d r a w n o l i n e s , c o m e o u t o n e s i d e o f y o u r m o u t h a n d
t h e w o r d s s h u n t h e s e p e o p l e , t h e s e p e o p l e a r e o u r e n e m i e s , w e m u s t d r a w
l i n e s b e t w e e n o u r s e l v e s a n d t h e s e p e o p l e c o m e o u t t h e o t h e r s i d e o f
y o u r m o u t h , p e o p l e o f i n t e l l i g e n c e a n d i n t e g r i t y c a n e a s i l y s e e t h r o u g h
s u c h f a c i l e c o n t r a d i c t i o n a n d h y p o c r i s y .

T h a t S h o g h i e n d e d u p e s t r a n g e d f r o m h i s e n t i r e f a m i l y i s a s t a r k
t e s t i m o n y t o t h e n e g a t i v e i n f l u e n c e t h a t s u c h c o n t r a d i c t o r y r e l i g i o u s
b e l i e f s a n d p r a c t i c e s h a v e o n t h e p e o p l e o f B a h a ' .

O f c o u r s e B a h a ' i s w o u l d l i k e t o m a i n t a i n t h e f a n t a s y t h a t S h o g h i w a s
t h e o n l y f u n c t i o n a l o n e i n h i s f a m i l y w h i l e t h e e n t i r e r e s t o f h i s
f a m i l y , h i s o w n p a r e n t s i n c l u d e d , w e r e t h e d y s f u n c t i o n a l o n e s .

S u c h t h i n k i n g i s d e l u s i o n a l .

Y o u r s

L a r r y R o w e

From: "diamondsouled" <rowe@northwestel.net>
Subject: Re: The Baha'i Covenent used as a weapon
Date: Sunday, October 01, 2006 4:44 PM

Howdy Kent,

My solution?

Mmmm. Well walking the walk as well as talking the talk is a good
place to start.

Talk is easy, as is evidenced in the personal lives of the founders of
the Baha'i faith. It is quite easy to say: " I believe in the oneness
of humanity, I believe in respect for diversity ". It is quite a bit
more difficult in practice though because it requires a level of
tolerance, a level of acceptance of diversity of human interpretation
that is inclusive, that doesn't make exceptions.

Criminal behavior, is criminal behavior regardless of the professed
beliefs of those who engage in that criminal behavior. Holding
religious interpretations which are diverse is not criminal in itself;
if those beliefs cause a person to engage in criminal behavior then the
wisdom of those beliefs should be questioned.

Just as the religious beliefs which led to twelve Baha'is murdering
seven Bayanis in Acre should be questioned.

Although Baha'is like to absolve Baha'u'llah of any guilt in these
murders which were committed by his followers I would have to say that
it is quite apparent that the hatred felt by Baha'is for Bayanis was
principally instigated by Baha'u'llah himself. This hatred for Bayanis
led to their dehumanization in the eyes of Baha'is and this
dehumanization of Covenant Breakers or anyone else who is cast as an
enemy of the Baha'i faith continues to this day.

This is what can happen when religionists dehumanize other groups of
individuals and is the principle reason why religion continues to be:
"the most harmful agency on this planet".

To rid ourselves of this "harmful agency" Kent is not to rid ourselves
of Baha'is, Muslims, Christians, or Jews or any other religious group,
but to rid ourselves of the religious practice of dividing humanity,
the religious practice of dehumanizing fellow human beings simply
because their religious views and interpretations differ from our own.

I don't see you or any other member of the Baha'i faith, including the
members of the universal house of justice as my enemy Kent; I see those
concepts which perpetuate ignorance of the fact the humanity is in
reality one, as our common enemy.

Yours

Larry Rowe

-------

 

From: "diamondsouled" <rowe@northwestel.net>
Subject: Re: Susan Maneck continues breaching sacred boundaries.
Date: Tuesday, December 12, 2006 11:43 AM

Sorry Susan,

The gross exaggeration of world Baha'i membership numbers is meant to
placate all those who have been promised entry by troops for the past
past 80 years. The gross exaggeration of the number of actual Baha'is
in India goes hand in hand with the inclusion of tens of thousands of
people who signed declaration cards in North America in the past 20 to
40 years and that was it; they never truly became Baha'is they simply
put their name on a card like you would on a Zellers card and never
followed it up. Also the many others who signed declaration cards but
who have become inactive and no long believe in the Baha'i faith or
have actually joined other religious communities but have never taken
the time to resign and have been address unknown for many years.

The Universal House has no power to change existing Baha'i law only to
introduce new Baha'i law and then only if that new law does not require
any reinterpretation or interpretation of Baha'i scripture at all.

In other words if a Baha'i man chose to marry two women and those two
women were agreeable to the marriage the Universal House of Justice
could do nothing to prevent the man from being a bigamist if it was
allowed in the country in which he lived. These are the facts of your
religion Susan.

Bigamy is allowed and it is written right into Baha'i scripture, into
Baha'i law:

"You asked about polygamy. According to the text (nass) of the Divine
Book the right of having two wives is lawful and legal (ja'iz). This
was never (abadan) prohibited, but it is legitimate and allowed
(halal wa mubah). You should therefore not be unhappy, but take
justice into your consideration so that you may be as just as
possible. what has been said was that since justice is very difficult
(to achieve), therefore tranquillity (calls for) one wife. But in
your case, you should not be unhappy." ['Abdul-Baha, cited in Amr wa
Khalq 4: 174]

And the confirmation of bigamy seems to be still more clearly
formulated in yet another passage:

"Concerning bigamy, this has been promulgated, and must abrogate it
(mansusast nasikhi nadarad). 'Abdu'l Baha has not abrogated this law.
These are false accusations and lies (muftarag....) (spread by) the
friends. What I have said is that He [is that Baha'u'llah, or
Muhammad?] has made bigamy bound on a precondition. As long as
someone does not attain certitude regarding the capability to
practice justice and his heart is not at rest that he can practice
justice, he should not be intent upon a second marriage. But if he
should be sure and attain certitude that he would practice justice on
all levels (and conditions) (dar jami' i maratib), then a second
marriage is lawful. Just as has been the case in the Holy Land (Ardi
i Maqsud): the Baha'i friends wished to marry a second wife,
accepting this precondition, and this servant (i.e., 'Abdu'l Baha)
never abstained (from giving permission), but insisted that justice
should be considered, and justice actually means here self restraint
(daraji i imtina'); but they said, that they will practice justice
and wished to marry a second wife. Such false accusations (concerning
'Abdu'l Baha's prohibition of bigamy) are the slanderous whisperings
(zamzamih) of those who wish to spread doubts (in people's hearts)
and to what degree they already succeed in making matters ambiguous!
(Our) purpose was to state that bigamy without justice is not lawful
and that justice is very difficult (to achieve)." [Amr wa Khalq 4:174f]

So much for the true and full equality of women with men that is only
given lip service in the Baha'i Faith!

In spite of the fact that the full equality of women with men is
preached in the Baha'i Faith: bigamy is allowed for men only, women
are excluded from the highest Baha'i religious body the UHJ, are
grossly under represented on the ITC and among Continental Councillors
and if the word of Baha'u'llah was taken at it's actual literal word
women would not even be allowed on local and national spiritual
assemblies-houses of justice! The Baha'i faith is so rife with
contradiction and hypocrisy it is a right off; just another of the many
other such minor religious cults that has arisen in the past two
hundred years.

Every week I read the actual stories of real individuals Susan, many
stories of actual life experiences which have striking similarities.
People who have joined the Baha'i Faith because of all the talk about
the oneness of humanity and the equality of women with men only to find
that all the pretty talk is just that: talk; a facade that an
increasingly authoritarian cult uses to hide behind. To hide the
paranoia of covenant breaker and enemy seeking mentality which comes
directly from the UHJ itself and is enforced by their own private army
of religious zealots, the protection branch, the Baha'i Stasi. Such
people are leaving the Baha'i faith in droves, in troops Susan. I don't
have to make such facts up because I read them every week from
different individuals who have experienced the same narrow mindedness,
the same over zealous triumphalism, the same rampant paranoia and
suspicious thinking in Baha'i communities all over the US and Canada.

These problems are endemic to the Baha'i faith Susan and they are
being actively cultivated by a Baha'i Administrative Order which has
delusionally bought into the myth of its own infallibility.

It doesn't anger me Susan, it saddens me. My only motive is to help
people deprogram themselves so they can escape from what has become a
spiritually unhealthy and emotionally dysfunctional cult. My only
motive is to inform people as to the facts. Facts that they can easily
check out for themselves with a few hours of on line research.

Yours

Larry Rowe

From: "diamondsouled" <rowe@northwestel.net>
Subject: Re: The Baha'i Covenent used as a weapon
Date: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 4:51 PM

Howdy Kent,

I've heard you Kent:

"So the Faith cannot change, it must remain the way it is."

Funny, sounds just like the excuses Muslims, Christians, Jews and all
other religionists and cultists use to justify injust and inequitable
religious practices!

So much for the Baha'i faith's supposed progressiveness!

There's nothing wrong with having heros Kent, no matter if those heros
are rock stars, actors, guru-prophets, politicains, or atheletes.

The wrongness arises when the words or actions of those heros are used
as an excuse to perpetuate unenlightened behaviors such as dividing
humanity, such as the antiquated and obsolete religious practice of
shunning.

When Baha'u'llah removed the past religious practice of dividing
humanity*: "the evil tree" - "the irreligious", from "the pure tree" -
the chosen, it was a good idea, a step forward. When he, Abdul-Baha',
Shoghi Effendi and the universal house of justice divide humanity: "the
Army of Light" from the "forces of darkness", it is a bad idea, a step
backwards.

Why does religion continue to be: "the most harmful agency on this
planet." Kent? Because religionists continue to use the words of their
gurus-prophets as an excuse to engage in obsolete, antiquated, injust
and or inequitable religious practices.

You're right Kent it is your choice to unquestioningly support the
regressive religious practices of those who are your gurus and
religious leaders. Don't be too surprised though when you make that
decision that you end up on the wrong side of justice and equity.

Baha'is have to decide whether or not to truly embrace such words of
Abdul-Baha's:

Let them see no one as their enemy, or as wishing them ill, but think
of all humankind as their friends; regarding the alien as an intimate,
the stranger as a companion, staying free of prejudice, drawing no
lines.

(Abdul-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdul-Baha, p. 1)

... or to embrace the Baha'i religious practice of drawing lines, of
seeing people as enemies, of shunning. You can't do both Kent, not with
intellectual integrity at least.

When the train runs you over Kent, with Rumsfield as the engineer,
Bush shoveling coal, and Glenford Mitchell and the rest of the uhj as
the conductors ( waving to your remains from the caboose ), don't be
too surprised.

Yours

Larry Rowe

*His Holiness Bahá'u'lláh expressed the oneness of humankind whereas
in all religious teachings of the past, the human world has been
represented as divided into two parts, one known as the people of the
Book of God or the pure tree and the other the people of infidelity and
error or the evil tree. The former were considered as belonging to the
faithful and the others to the hosts of the irreligious and infidel;
one part of humanity the recipients of divine mercy and the other the
object of the wrath of their Creator. His Holiness Bahá'u'lláh
removed this by proclaiming the oneness of the world of humanity and
this principle is specialized in His teachings for He has submerged all
mankind in the sea of divine generosity. Some are asleep; they need to
be awakened. Some are ailing; they need to be healed. Some are immature
as children; they need to be trained. But all are recipients of the
bounty and bestowals of God.

(Abdul-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdul-Baha Section, p. 246)

The need to protect the Faith from the attacks of its enemies may not
be generally appreciated by the friends, particularly in places where
attacks have been infrequent. However, it is certain that such
opposition will increase, become concerted, and eventually universal.
The writings clearly foreshadow not only an intensification of the
machinations of internal enemies, but a rise in the hostility and
opposition of its external enemies, whether religious or secular, as
the Cause pursues its onward march towards ultimate victory. Therefore,
in the light of the warnings of the Guardian, the Auxiliary Boards for
Protection should keep "constantly" a "watchful eye" on those "who are
known to be enemies, or to have been put out of the Faith", discreetly
investigate their activities, alert intelligently the friends to the
opposition inevitably to come, explain how each crisis in God's Faith
has always proved to be a blessing in disguise, and prepare them for
the "dire contest which is destined to range the Army of Light against
the forces of darkness".

(The Universal House of Justice, The Institution of the Counsellors,
p. 16)
From: "diamondsouled" <rowe@northwestel.net>
Subject: Re: The Baha'i Covenent used as a weapon
Date: Friday, September 29, 2006 5:57 PM

Hello Kent,

Check it out for yourself Kent.

That is if you care to be informed.

Oh no, all of Shoghi's family was in the wrong, each and every one
them, except for him. All of them, including his own parents had a
contagitious spiritual disease and deserved to be treated like lepers,
all except for him of course.

When Shoghi passed the Baha'i Covenant Breaker curse on each and every
one of his own family members, his parents included, it was all for the
sake of the oneness of humanity.

Give me break Kent, lol!

One doesn't cultivate the oneness of humanity Kent by alienating ones
entire family: for quiting a job, for taking a trip to America, for
arranging a wedding, for refusing to disassocite from those who have
unjustly had the Baha'i Covenant curse declared against them.

Like I said before Kent if you want to make a pretense of being a
Baha'i appologist you had better research the things that you say are
untrue.

The truth is Kent that Baha'u'llah said one thing:

Whatsoever hath led the children of men to shun one another, and hath
caused dissensions and divisions amongst them, hath, through the
revelation of these words, been nullified and abolished.

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 95)

.. and did another. Shunned his half brother Azal and his children and
their children.

As well Abdul-Baha said one thing:

Let them see no one as their enemy, or as wishing them ill, but think
of all humankind as their friends; regarding the alien as an intimate,
the stranger as a companion, staying free of prejudice, drawing no
lines.

(Abdul-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdul-Baha, p. 1)

.. and did another. Shunned his own half brother Muhammad and his
children and their children, calling them enemies, treating them as
enemies.

And Shoghi, well Shoghi ended up shunning his entire family his
parents included!

And all this inspite of the fact that shunning had supposedly been:
"nullified and abolished" by none other than Baha'u'llah himself!

Do you dispute any of those facts Kent?

Thing is Kent Baha'is are not interested in the facts, in the truth.
The truth that the Baha'i faith is a cult no different that the
Unification Church or Scientology, that their personal guru Baha'u'llah
was no more spiritually superior than L Ron Hubbard or Reverend Moon
are spiritually superior.

Baha'u'llah is a man who said one thing and did another. Far from
being the most great infallibility he was infact, in reality, a man
like any other man: a man with foibles, with faults, with flaws, a man
who said one thing and dids another. The type of men that sit on the
universal house of justice.

Yours

Larry Rowe

-----


 

From: "diamondsouled" <rowe@northwestel.net>
Subject: Re: The Baha'i Covenent used as a weapon
Date: Saturday, September 30, 2006 3:42 PM

Howdy Hasley,

Mmmm.

Sounds like the regular excuse of all religionists and cultists: how
to reconcile the irreconcilable, how to gloss over the contradictory.

When religionists make exceptions to universal principles what making
those exceptions proves is that those universal principles are
secondary to their religious practices which contradict those universal
principles. Thus what is truly most important to Baha'is is their
religious practice of shunning and not the oneness of humanity.

So although Baha'is mouth the words: the oneness of humanity, their
religious practices in regards to those they cast as spiritual lepers
shows that those words in their mouths: the oneness of humanity, are
empty, without substance.

Actually Hasley it is through the actual statements of Baha'u'llah,
Abdul-Baha, Shoghi Effendi and the universal house of justice that the
contradictory nature of Baha'i teachings and religious practices can be
shown without a shadow of a doubt.

Universal principles such as equality, justice, peace, the harmony of
science with religion, and reconcilation between the peoples of the
world all make great sense, this is if you actually put those
principles into practice. When religionists start making exceptions to
those principles, as Baha'is have done and continue to do, then
religion continues to be: "the most harmful agency on this planet" *.

Ironically Shoghi put his finger on the issue:

"Where and how does this Order established by Bahá'u'lláh, which to
outward seeming is but a replica of the institutions established in
Christianity and Islam, differ from them? Are not the twin institutions
of the House of Justice and of the Guardianship, the institution of the
Hands of the Cause of God, the institution of the national and local
Assemblies, the institution of the Mashriqu'l-Adhkar, but different
names for the institutions of the Papacy and the Caliphate, with all
their attending ecclesiastical orders which the Christians and Moslems
uphold and advocate? What can possibly be the agency that can safeguard
these Bahá'í institutions, so strikingly resemblant, in some of their
features, to those which have been reared by the Fathers of the Church
and the Apostles of Muhammad, from witnessing the deterioration in
character, the breach of unity, and the extinction of influence, which
have befallen all organized religious hierarchies? Why should they not
eventually suffer the self-same fate that has overtaken the
institutions which the successors of Christ and Muhammad have reared?"

(Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 18)

... only thing is he couldn't see how his own actions in regards to
his own family; his entire family, parents included, made his behavior
as a religious leader indistinguishable from the behaviors of religious
leaders of the past: disenfranchise those whose human interpretations
differ from your own, cast those individuals as enemies, as spiritually
diseased, and through this process dehumanize them.

Baha'u'llah engaged in this practice, Abdul-Baha' engaged in this
practice, Shoghi engaged in this pratice, is it really any wonder that
to this day the universal house of justice engages in this practice?

A religious practice which makes the Baha'i faith: " but a replica", a
replica of all those previous: " organized religious hierarchies ".

Yours

Larry Rowe

*Abdul-Baha'

--------

Hasley9@aol.com wrote:
> > Baha'u'llah is a man who said one thing and did another.
>
> No, He is a man who said more than one thing. And rather than attempt
> to understanding how His various statements fit together you prefer to
> pick and choose between them.
>
> That's fine, when you are not a Baha'i.
From: "diamondsouled" <rowe@northwestel.net>
Subject: Re: The Baha'i Covenent used as a weapon
Date: Sunday, October 01, 2006 8:16 PM

Hi Kent,

Until Baha'is can freely express their consciences without the fear of
their more conservative coreligionists hanging the Baha'i Covenant over
their necks like an executioners axe it will be impossible for Baha'is
and thus the Baha'i faith to do anything to end the Baha'i religious
practice of shunning, of the drawing of lines between friends and
enemies based on diversity of religious interpretation while ignoring
the reality of individual character.

During the many years I was a Baha'i I would thrill to those words in
the writings that enjoin humanity to embrace brotherhood, friendship
and unity. Then when I would read those words in the writings which
directly contradict this stated goal of friendship, brotherhood and
unity I would despair. I would think: "Perhaps I'm missing something,
perhaps there is something wrong with me that I cannot see the sense in
these many clear contradictions."

Why state in one breath that shunning has been abolished and nullified
and in the next breath council the shunning of certain individuals? Why
state in one breath that humanity is a two winged bird that will not
fly until both wings are equally developed and then in the next breath
state that women are not allowed and will never be allowed to be fully
equal in the Baha'i faith? Why state in one breath that humanity is
one, that we should draw no lines and treat all peoples as our friends
and in the next breath cast certain individuals and their children as
our inveterate enemies, as spiritually contagious, as only being worthy
of shunning?

At a certain point I could no longer reconcile all these clear
contradictions Kent. The many contractions between the words of
Baha'u'llah, Abdul-Baha' and Shoghi Effendi as well as the many clear
contradictions between the universal, principle Baha'i teachings and
the actual actions in the lives of Baha'u'llah, Abdul-Baha and Shoghi
Effendi in regards to their decision to shun many of their own family
members. In Shoghi's case the decision to shun his entire family, his
own parents included.

It was then that I began the process of deprograming. Having been
indoctrinated as a child greatly complicated this process. This process
has been ongoing for the past thirty years.

Yours

Larry Rowe