From: Kavosh Soltani <email@example.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 09, 1998 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: Reply to "moderator" of soc.religion.bahai
>firstname.lastname@example.org wrote in message
>> I have been following Mr. Soltanis postings on
>> alt.religion.bahai for some time, and wish to reply to
>> what appears to be a veiled threat.
>A 'veiled threat'?! I don't understand why so many Bahais
>have this urge to try to discredit people, imply something
>negative, and resort to personal attack and name-calling!
>Is this something inherent in the doctrine or the natural
>defense mechanism that causes you to resort to this kind of
>rhetoric to justify your membership in an ideologically
>Actually, what I said was pretty clear - nothing 'veiled'
>about it. Although no one single entity runs the internet,
>there are ways to expose people who are abusing established
>protocol and stop carrying of newsgroups whose moderators
>are blatantly biased and are breaking netiquette.
>> For some time Mr. Soltani has been posting on this
>> newsgroup, as well as others, and he has consistently
>> rebutted the claims of Baha'u'llah and the Bab, and
>> has taken the stand that Muhammad is the last Prophet,
>> the Seal.
>This is a fair statement; but, I have been on and off this
>newsgroup. I have to return and spend my valuable time
>exposing deceptive Bahai claims, when I notice that certain
>individuals, either naively or intentionally, are once again
>misrepresenting my faith and spreading falsehood about the
>Word of God. By now, many people have realized that doing
>so is not only the just and decent thing to do, but also
>is obligated upon me and other Muslims. I don't understand
>why you seem to have a difficulty recognizing my duty and
>right, even after I have repeatedly provided proofs from
>Why do the missionaries of all misguided groups want to
>silent the voice of reason and the Word of God? Are they
>threatened by the truth and are fearful that some of their
>unfortunate followers will awaken to the Word of God and
>find true guidance?
>Incidentally, if you have noticed, none of my replies to
>similar postings on soc.religion.bahai have been allowed.
>Don't you feel it odd that now, for almost a month, I have
>been responding to all kind of allegation by Bahais on this
>forum, but not one of my clarifications have been allowed
>on SRB? Why do the moderators censor people who speak
>reason and present clear evidence from Scriptures in support
>of their claims? Why do they allow baseless conjecture,
>misquotation, and misrepresentation of Islam, but not the
>truth and response to their false allegations? What are
>they hiding and what do they fear?
>> Mr. Soltani is free to do so, free to think and feel and
>> believe as he wishes.
>You are too kind! Thank you.
>> If he refuses to open his mind and heart to the
>> possibility that God has renewed His religion, then
>> that is between him and God.
>Actually, if I were to disobey what Allah has so clearly
>decreed (in many ways), then I would be an unbeliever. No,
>thanks! I know Al-Islam pretty well and I know what Allah
>(the Exalted) has said about the people before us who
>ignored the Clear guidance, followed their own whims and
>wishes, invented new 'faiths', and were doomed...
>Incidentally, we had this discussion almost a year ago, when
>I explained the misconceptions you have been taught and were
>spreading and provided dozens upon dozens of clear passages
>from the Muslim Scriptures confirming that any doctrine
>invented after Al-Islam is misguided and manmade. Obviously,
>you have forgotten all our discussions...
>Perhaps, in light of what you have said, you need ask yourself
>two simple questions:
> 1. Why do you refuse to follow the Word of God in a religion
> that you yourself bear witness to be Divine? Speaking
> of someone's mind and heart being sealed, perhaps you
> need to work on your own house first...
> 2. If someone were to turn around and give you this same
> line of argument, what would you answer?
> What if a member of another one of these other manmade
> "faiths" were to invite you to theirs, give you a lot
> of mumbo-jumbo on why you should join, and - when you
> refuse based on Hussain Ali's words - advance some
> ridiculous statement like:
> "If you refuse to open your mind and heart to the
> possibility that God has renewed His religion, then
> that is between you and God."
> Would you give up your faith because some biased missionary
> accused you of being closed-minded? I do not think so.
> Then I wonder, why are you even bothering to advance this
> line of argument?
>When I say, this is cult mentality, some Bahais get all bent
>out of shape and write all sort of articles to explain why
>people should not see them as having been brainwashed! But,
>the evidence is in pudding! So many Bahais on these forums
>have shown to be ready to forget logic and reason, ignore
>clear evidence and Word of God, and come up with exactly the
>same line of tired and inaccurate excuses and arguments to
>justify their position, that it can not be a simple coincidence.
>To me, that smells like cult mentality.
>> Mr. Soltani bases his beliefs upon the Quran, and says
>> that Book is the authority, the standard by which he
>> measures everything.
>As repeatedly I have stated, the people who ignore the
>clear Word of God and resort to conjecture are doomed. I
>base my ideas on clear Word of God and the teachings of
>the last Messenger of Allah, Muhammad(pbuh), and always
>have provided quote to substantiate what I have said.
>> The Quran requires a dependence upon God, an open,
>> inquiring mind, a pure heart, a loving, gentle nature,
>> a reverence for all things and all people.
>Some people rely on deception and misrepresent the religion
>Of Allah, I am authorized to expose them the way I see fit.
>Incidentally, calling someone who steals a "thief" is not
>having an abusive nature...
>> In contrast, Mr. Soltani consistently misspells the
>> name of the Baha'i Faith, and uses terms such as "Bahaism"
>> which he knows to be not only incorrect, but disrespectful.
>I am sorry, but you are once more only reflecting negatively
>on yourself. I refer you to Webster's dictionary to see that
>the word "Bahaism" is perfectly legal. And as far as your
>"baha'i" versus my "Bahai", I like mine more and I know Persian
>language! At least I do not abbreviate as "Bah", as some Bahais
>abbreviate Muhammad as "Moh"...
>It is amusing that Bahai missionaries have no problem using the
>words "Hinduism" and "Buddism", even though the followers of
>these doctrines are hundreds of times more in number than and
>have been in existance for thousands of years, and yet object
>to someone else calling their doctrine "Bahaism".
>No doubt, this is more of the predictable strategy of these people.
>They like to change the subject, attack people who speak justly,
>and distruct people from clear evidence to trivial and unfounded
>> He comes into these Baha'i newsgroups with assertions which
>> are inflammatory and says that he is offended by Baha'is.
>Of course I am offended and so should any decent person be.
>We have seen how Bahai "proofs" are blatant misrepresentation
>of Islamic teachings which even sink as low as taking passages
>out of context. As a long-time learned Bahai, you may find
>it normal and acceptable to misrepresent the facts, truth, and
>teachings of another faith and claim a different "interpretation";
>to me that is dishonest and offensive...
>> He makes statements without documenting the conclusions
>> which he reaches, either from the Quran, or from the Baha'i
>This is indeed amusing. After testifying that you have been
>reading my posts on these newsgroups for a while, you have the
>cheek to claim that I have not being providing evidence from
>Quran or Bahai arguments? Sadly, your own statements say
>volumes about your true purpose for even bringing up this kind
>of baseless inflammatory attack... Those interested to see
>what I've said and whether I quote Quran and answer to Bahai
>misrepresentations, can look into https://www.dejanews.com/ and
>search for "kavosh and Bahai" in recent and past folders...
>Even my recent posting that exposed some of the misrepresentations
>of Bahai missionaries, quoted what Bahais often use as "proof"
>from Quran, next to actual passages of the Quran...
>I do not frankly believe anyone will fall for these baseless
>attacks. Your strategy only goes to show the truth about what
>knowledgeable Bahais do and what extents they will go to silence
>the voice of reason and truth. I am glad this is not the time
>of Shah and I am not living in Iran, otherwise I might have been
>silenced in a more permanent way by those who collaborated with
>> And finally, he makes what can only be considered to be
>If you and your colleagues keep spreading falsehood about Islam
>and Muslims on soc.religion.bahai and do not allow Muslims to
>provide follow up responses, we will make the motion to discontinue
>your propaganda forum, expose the falsehood of Bahais, and make
>sure everyone on the Internet knows the truth about a doctrine
>whose leaders purposely misrepresent other faiths and censor the
>word of reason and truth... You want to consider this a threat?
>I see it as a promise; one that it is right and justified...
>> Firstly, the Baha'i Faith is recognized as being a world
>> religion by virtually every national government in the
>> world, save a few, such as Iran.
>I am more interested with what God has said about this manmade
>doctrine, than what some ignorant politicians have done... Those
>people consider any two-bit cult a faith - even the ones Bahais
>consider to be man-made... Secondly, there are almost 50 Muslim
>nations in existance...
>> The Baha'i institutions are organized and established in
>> over 200 nations.
>And, this should tell me something about the truthfulness
>Of your doctrine? How many countries and localities has playboy?
>> Baha'i marriages are legal, students and employees are
>> allowed to stay home on Baha'i holy days, Spiritual
>> Assemblies are able to purchase and maintain properties
>> for schools and centers, books and literature are
>> legally printed and sold and owned and read.
>This is your evidence for being divine? Any cult would be
>able to do the same.
>> The United Nations Organization has recognized the
>> Baha'i Faith from the outset, and Baha'is are well
>> represented in the non-governmental portions of this
>> world organization.
>Being on the side of Israel and other anti-Islamic movements
>has its advantages... Regardless, I do not see this as
>truthfulness of your doctrine. The truth still remains
>that you claim (obviously falsely) to accept divinity of
>Al-Islam and Al-Islam rejects claims of Bahaism... The
>fact that you lobby UN also goes to prove you are in truth
>a political organization, regardless of all the talk of not
>wanting to engage in politics...
>> Finally, Baha'is live in more localities in the world
>> than Muslims, or any other religion save Christianity.
>I seriously doubt that even your exaggerated numbers of 5
>million cover more area than 1.6 billion Christians or 1.4
>Billion Muslims. Having an office in city X does not make
>your representation the same as 100 Mosques in the same area;
>the same holds of all other nations around the world... Your
>supporters may publish such statements, but those are obviously
>unacceptable to every thinking person...
>> I think that the assertion that the Baha'i Faith is
>> a world religion is easily verifiable to be true.
>I see it as a man-made one; so do the majority of people
>around the globe.
>> The Baha'i Faith is not rejected by every Muslim. A
>> large percentage of Baha'is formerly were Muslims, and
>> large numbers of Muslims admire the high ethical
>> standards and the devotion to God which the Baha'i
>> teachings inculcate.
>As we have seen, Bahais are unable to respond to the word
>of God in Al-Islam. I doubt any sincere believer would
>feel anything but sorrow for people who are following a
>misguided and man-made faith which leads nowhere but to
>destruction in the hereafter. I also like to point out
>that Bahaism is declared as a man-made doctrine by all
>Muslim scholars of repute for 150 years. In fact, any
>individual who would ever accept what Bahai missionaries
>claim (naturally, without any evidence) would cease to be
>a Muslim, since he would be ignoring the Clear Word of God.
>> Unfortunately, many people are not allowed access to
>> the Baha'i writings, and have only the statements of
>> people like Mr. Soltani to guide them. Since Mr.
>> Soltani does not quote either the Quran or the Baha'i
>> Writings, it is not possible for readers to make an
>> informed decision for themselves, something which
>> Baha'u'llah emphasizes.
>I think you enjoy saying things that are obviously false.
>But, then, Bahai missionaries and scholars have been also
>spreading falsehood about Islam and Muslims for 150 years
>and that should be expected... Once more, if anyone wants
>to see if I have or have not quoted Muslim Scriptures, they
>should check dejanews and see the truth...
>> The statement that Baha'is allow "anti-Islamic" postings
>> is easily verifiable as being untrue.
>Misrepresenting Islam and preventing Muslims from replying
>to allowed postings is blatant deception and subversion of
>truth. The postings by Bahais missionaries about Islam, as
>we have seen on this forum are often misquotations or
>conjectures about selected passages and without merit.
>> The moderated newsgroup, soc.religion.bahai, is regulated
>> by a very high standard of conduct which does not allow
>> for any attacks upon any individual or group of people.
>This is the perfect forum for spreading "propaganda". Just
>imagine if their so called "proofs", "arguments", and evidence
>were being exposed freely everyday; would they be able to
>create such an ideal atmosphere to misguide and brainwash?
>> No posting attacking Muslims or Islam or the Quran would
>> ever be permitted, and the rejection of Mr. Soltanis article
>> is proof, if any is needed. On this newsgroup, which is not
>> moderated, there are numerous postings attacking the Baha'i
>> Faith itself, such as those of Mr. Soltani, but I do not
>> recall any attacks upon Islam, Muslims or the Quran here,
>> which were written by Baha'is.
>Any time Bahai missionaries misrepresent Islam, take Quran
>out of context, attack Muslims, and misrepresent history,
>they are attacking Islam and Muslims; not to mention all other
>> Baha'is have responded to the many attacks on them and
>> their Faith, by quoting from the Baha'i writings, the
>> Quran and the Christian and Jewish holy books, but I do
>> not believe an objective person would term these replies
>> as being "attacks" themselves.
>I think any reasonable individual can see that while longtime
>Bahai missionaries have been hiding in the background, unable
>to defend the claims of their scholars and missionaries about
>Islam, no response to usual Bahai propaganda has been allowed
>on soc.religion.bahai. Do you think everyone is so gullible
>to think for a minute, that Muslims whose duty include spreading
>the truth and expose falsehood would patiently and politely
>respond to all kind of unfounded argument by Bahai missionaries
>on this forum, and keep quiet when it comes to SRB? Obviously,
>not! The fact is that the lack of response by knowledgeable
>Muslims on that forums is solely attributable to a blatant
>pattern of censorship and abuse by the moderators of SRB...
>If I used a colorful title now (mind you the content is nothing
>but supported discussion), it was to attract attention and
>expose the truth about Bahai missionaries and their strategies.
>Thank you for your help and collaboration in this regard...
>> Mr. Soltani states that he has received many complaints, and
>> he appears to be attempting to force the Baha'is into silence.
>Obviously, I am not the only one and this is why all the talk
>about creating a new forum talk.religion.bahai is going on.
>However, my purpose is to stop this blatant abuse of Internet
>netiquette by Bahai missionaries in SRB.
>> The Baha'i Faith is over 150 years old, and for every one of
>> those years there have been attempts to silence Baha'is.
>Anytime you have mass graves come forth and I accept your
>repeated assertions of massive abuse...
>Islam is over 1400 years old and every year there have been
>hundreds of thousands of Muslims killed around the world.
>While you wasted our time with your missionary propaganda,
>probably a few dozen children died of disease and hunger in
>Iraq, Bosnia, Kashmir, and elsewhere... If you think this is
>reason for one's "divinity", I have a bridge to sell...
>If you have a complaint about the government of Iran, I
>suggest you take it to an Iranian forum. After seeing the
>blatant deceptive methods of Bahai missionaries, I know
>better to take their word at face value...
>Besides, if I wanted to be impressed by every person who kills
>himself or dies for some misguided idea (religious or otherwise),
>I would be more impressed with heaven gates followers all of
>whom took their own lives... Were they also following a divine
>religion? They all died for their belief...
>This is the usual amo of missionaries. As we have seen it here,
>they proudly come out and state the Muslim "shahadah" and call
>themselves Muslims, when they know too well even a dictionary
>defines a Muslim differently... They use the same strategy on
>their poor naive victims and get them to do the same in Muslim
>In a Muslim state, just as Christianity and Judaism state, the
>punishment for committing treason to God and State is death.
>The poor people, who are tricked to declare their faith in the
>manner of a Muslim openly and then are allowed to recant publicly,
>are punished, just like anyone else would be. A Muslim, Christian,
>Jews, Hindu, Bahai, or any other person who did the same would be
>penalized exactly in the same way. There is no bias against
>Bahais on that regard...
>Nevertheless, we should know that Bahai missionaries have been
>ideologically defeated when they come up with such "evidence"
>and empty "proofs" for being a "faith"... Do they have nothing
>left that attack the believers, spread falsehood, advance
>baseless arguments, avoid discussion of Divine evidence, and
>divert discussion to claims of abuse somewhere around the world...
>Sorry, if I say I am not impressed!
>In the meanwhile, I see all this shouting another attempt to
>misguide more gullible People, intimidate Muslims and silence them
>from exposing the falsehood of your doctrine, and seek political
>Asylum and financial help for your movement.
>After seeing what Bahais are capable of doing on a newsgroup, I am
>glad they no longer have a controlling hand in Iran; Otherwise,
>they would abuse power even more and try to silence the voice of
>Muslims as it was done at the time of Shah.
> None can dispute about the Signs of Allah but the Unbelievers.
> Let not, then, their strutting about through the land deceive thee!
> (The holy Quran, 40.4)
> Fain would they extinguish Allah's light with their mouths, but
> Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even
> though the Unbelievers may detest (it).
> (The holy Quran, 9.32)